When a woman spreads her legs she signs an unwritten contract...

You mean like braindead adult human. Sleeping people and people in a coma have brainwaves in the cerebral cortex, fetuses before 20 weeks do not.

 

agreed, in respect to responsibility being the operative word, but if she wants to be irresponsible she should have the liberty of an abortion.

 

That's why moralists hate logic. But I'm pretty sure a world ruled by logic would be pretty awful. We'd be murdering five-year-olds over paternity issues.

 

Not everyone is "Truly Christian" .. but even if they were: The OT laws only put restrictions on the sexual activities of women, men were allowed to have as much sex as they wanted so long as they were not doing it with someone elses property/wife.

The Bible does not say that sex can not be or should not be used for pleasure (Psalms in fact encourages sex for pleasure).

Paul is about the only one that we could say was against sex .. but he never knew Jesus and made stuff up as he went along .. in many cases contradicting Jesus.

In summary .. the Bible does not condemn sex for pleasure nor is it sinful.

More importantly .. whatever the religious beliefs you choose personally.. have them, keep them, be happy you live in a country that allows religious freedom .. but because you value freedom for yourself you should also respect the freedom of others to choose for themselves.

 

Okay, I'm not saying this is all is bad. I'm just saying that those who are not going to follow this advice should use condoms. Condoms are better than unwanted babies that will grow up in a single parent household, and infinitely better than an abortion.

 

And condoms are not 100% effective

 

Giftedone said,

You are wrong. "For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. (Genesis 2:24-25) This is the model. One man, One woman…untiled cleaving to one another.

The New Testament confirms that sexual relations within a marriage is not sinful. It does not say anything about not having sex for pleasure if one is married. Man was alone and lonely….or God would not have created woman. Paul says that those who marry have not sinned. Hebrews states, "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure." What this says is this that sex relations of those married are pure. So if a man slept around….it would be sinful. Those who engaged in consensual sexual relations with a married person was considered a capital offense punishable by death. For those who were unmarried…who were having sex with another unmarried person…resulted in marriage. If you read the NT laws about sex..they back up what the OT says. Premarital sex, adultery, homosexual sex…even lust was sin.

"Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge. (Hebrews 13:4)

Only between married couples. Anything else is sin.

He knew Jesus because he was picked by God to speak for Christ. The Bible is without error and God breathed…everything in it…even what Paul said. He never contradicted Christ.

Yes it does over and over in both the OT and the NT. What happens is those who want to condone the sin in their lives…ignore what the bible really says.

People can choose for themselves in America. What Christian is forcing someone else to follow their beliefs. It is the other way around. Secular humanists are the ones who are forcing people to follow their pagan beliefs.

 

Well many Christians like yourself, wish to force your moral beliefs on us through law, such as ridding women's right to have an abortion. They also wish to deny gay people the right to marry their loved ones under the state (not the church) and receive the same legal protection and benefits as any other heterosexual couple can do under the state. Christians are making it very hard for gay people to receive equal protection for themselves and their partners under the law.

How is anyone making you follow paganism? And what makes you think secular humanists are pagan at all? What evidence do you have for this claim?

Secular humanists, as far as I can tell, merely want to protect people from religious fanatics that want to dig their claws into politics and direct our laws based on their moral beliefs thus forcing all of society to bend to their will.

I mean you have even said yourself once that you believe birth control should be illegal because it can potentially kill or stop the implantation of a zygote or embryo. If that's not forcing your moral dogma on others to the extreme then I don't know what is.

 

And that's why condoms are not the full and complete answer by themselves. Women (and men) should ideally keep sexual intercourse within committed relationships.

But the vast majority of the time, when a woman is seeking an abortion for her convenience, she never even bothered to make sure the man was wearing a condom. This is confirmed by a study: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3429402.html
While 72% of women who were getting abortions had not used condoms with their sexual partners, 46% of the women had not bothered to use any form of contraception!

 

Why are you lecturing us? We already know that women should use contraception, so what is the point of this?

 

So nobody has mentioned about other risky behaviour that implies consent that I brought up.

All consent to sex implies is just that: consent to intercourse.

If you drink, you CONSENT to get bladder, liver, stomach, etc. cancer.

If you smoke you CONSENT to get lung cancer or cardiovascular disease.

If you go in the woods you CONSENT to allow ticks into your body.

If you eat meat you CONSENT to allow tapeworms into you.

I could go on...

 

Pasithea said,

And I have every right to fight for what I believe is immoral. Laws are based on morality and safety that try to protect people. That is why we have laws. To not step on anyones toes means allowing everything…because laws restrict actions. Even the people who sit on the bench of the Supreme Court are biased and do what they personally believe is right. That is why every time a seat opens up…Democrats and Republicans fight tooth and nail…to get someone who reflects their worldview in office. The Constitution affords me this right. Today gays are fighting to change law. ARe you saying they have the right to do this…but I don't have the right to fight to keep the law as it?

Humanists have been very successful at tossing God out of the public forum. They want God eliminated….banished. Examples….well just recently the Democrats who had taken God our of their platform got such a backlash that at the convention they added him back in. Hilarious how they did it….the secular socialists didn't win this one however. However they are winning in our schools, workplaces.

Here ya go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ootrp7KSZDg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpwIUc-QlnU&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzNZ8tGbTDc&feature=relmfu

the Philadelphia eleven.

Silencing Christians…prohibiting free speech…arresting them.

Humanists have their own worldview….just like Christians do.

The Pill so it says in the directions of each package…or course in fine print…..the Handbook for Physicians state that the pill can cause abortion.

 

Your "right" to spew your morality over me does not exist. Chlorine is added to the water in public swimming pools to counter those who claim their right to urinate despite the rules. The public space needs more chlorine.

 

So you do admit then that Christians are trying to enforce their moral dogma on others through the law?

I take the position that people should be free to make their own choices and carve their own paths in life without the interference of other people's personal beliefs. I believe in FREEDOM. You clearly believe in restricting other people's free will based on your religion.

I wouldn't have a bone to pick with the religious if they weren't always trying to oppress everyone else and force us to follow their moral codes. Some religious people actually know how to keep their religion to themselves and within their community and only use it to better their lives and the lives of others while still respecting other people's right to think differently from them. I only hope more religious people learn to behave this way someday.

So you don't believe there should be a separation of church and state? And you think prayer to should be mandated in school and workplaces rather than allowing individuals to choose to pray if they want to in those places?

I think I will just flat out ask, do you wish to live under a Christian theocracy, is that your goal?

So once again the majority is crying that they are being oppressed when they are not allowed to oppress a minority. What a surprise.

Oh and the police had good reason to arrest them at the time, for inciting a riot, ignoring police orders, and blocking a public street. They were not peacefully protesting or peacefully reading the Bible in the slightest. They were trying to start a riot at an already planned gay pride event.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/inpublic.asp

And so therefore, because in your mind you have somehow come to the conclusion that a zygote, a single human cell, that it is a complete person and therefore must be saved by banning all hormonal birth control! How absolutely insane.

 

It clearly shows that most of the time unwanted pregnancies are due to the women's irresponsibility. Women who fail to use condoms should have absolutely no right abort their healthy babies. These women clearly had a choice in the matter; not just once but twice: first they decided to engage in sexual intercourse, then they decided a condom was not important. But supporters of abortion demand that these irresponsible women are entitled to a third chance to correct their mistake, no matter the cost to the baby. Why should the baby have to sacrifice its life for the mother's poor choices?

 

So you want women who you have deemed to be completely irresponsible without truly knowing their circumstances in life to be raising children?

Interesting.

 

And what morality would that be? Do share…..

 

Pasithea said,

Enforce? They are trying to change law, make law that reflects their worldview. EVERYONE DOES IT. The humanists try to do it. The atheists try to do it. Obama is trying to do it. Politicians try to do it.

WEll to do that fairly you would have to eliminate all laws and let people do whatever they want. Because laws have always restricted peoples actions. We have seat belt laws, sexual laws, tax laws, gun laws…..ARe you saying that we should not have any laws? There would be utter chaos and devastation without laws. Freedom….for you I guess means anything goes.

Yes you would..you hate people of faith that much is obvious. Who am I trying to oppress? Where in America are Christians oppressing people? you said I believe in another thread that this country was secular…always secular. So if we were always secular you can't blame the laws prohibiting homosexuals from getting married. It's not our fault. So why if we were secular….were they not allowed to marry? Whose fault is it? Where are Christians forcing people to worship? You know whats funny….you are pro-Obama and just a few months ago…he was against same sex marriage. Did you hate him for it?

I believe that our country was founded by Christians. I have studied history and read what the founders and people of that time said and did. And if they believed in separation of C and state THEY DID NOT ENFORCE OR BELIEVE IT. I believe in freedom of religion. So if someone gives a valedictorian speech at graduation they should be able to mention God. If someone wants to read their bible at school or talk about it….they should be allowed. No one should be forced to pray. But no one should be forced to listen to humanist who want to brainwash them either.

Jesus never forced anyone to follow Him. We have a choice…a personal one. I believe America became great because of our love for God and that colored the way we live and the way we prospered. I believe we are going down the tubes because people have been brainwashed into believing that they don't need god…they can live without him. We live in a society that has no morals….we do not value life…we value sports and entertainment….we are a narcissistic country…and it shows. And personally I think we are half way over the waterfall….no turning back. But I will still fight for what I believe is right and good and moral.

Gays are not oppressed. They are held up in movies, televisions, music…that notion is ridiculous. They want people to believe they have been oppressed…and they do it using many techniques. They want people to feel sorry for them and they milk it.

No they did not deserve to be arrested…not at all and that is why all charges were dropped. They were not a threat….most were elderly for God sakes. The pro-gay crowd has no tolerance..none and they did not want them around. This group was not trying to start a riot, that is ridiculous. You look at the confrontations like this that have happened….and the gays are the ones completely out of control.

WEll I don't care if you think its insane or not…coming from someone who thinks an unborn should be allowed to be aborted at nine months…says way more about you than me. LOL And in my opinion your position is absolutely immoral.

 

WHAT?????????? OMGOSH. What business is it of yours to say who should have children and who shouldn't, and why? You are so intolerant and judgmental. You say….that I should not judge…but you and your ilk….judge all the time. So someone might be poor….might have problems…now they should abort rather than have children. wow……

That shows lack of total morality.

 

I find it amusing that people scream and shout these women are just so irresponsible, but at the same time they want to force these so-called irresponsible people to raise children. It's just odd to me.

 

Let me clarify, I believe laws should be very limited, the federal government should be small and only have an interest in protecting our rights, such as life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Otherwise though people should be free to marry whom they love regardless of gender, they should be free to make their own informed medical choices about their bodies, they should be free to do what they like with their own property, they should be free to worship whoever they like or to not worship at all, things like this. But there are many people who want to restrict these particular freedoms even more than they already are.

It is a well known fact the the religious right is a major contributor in pushing and passing laws that keep all couples from receiving the same protection under the law as other couples.

Why do you think I am pro-Obama? I have never supported Obama. I voted for McCain last election and this year I am voting for Gary Johnson. What makes you think I am pro-Obama in the slightest? When have I ever said I am? Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

I believe our country was founded by deists and that since they came from a country with a single religion they wanted to live in one with freedom of religion and they most definitely wanted a separation of church and state since they just came from a country where this was not the case!

Anyhow I agree, people should be free to discuss their religion if they like, however take this case for example: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/reli...oned-supporting-atheist-student-krystal-myers

The school and it's teachers were intentionally promoting religion in class. Is this ok to you? Especially if, as it is now apparent, some students are NOT religious or follow a different religion?

How would you feel if the religion they were promoting was Islam instead of Christianity? Take a moment to think about if your children went to a school that promoted a religion you did not agree with, how would you feel?

Now think about how some of us are non-theist and don't want ANY religion being taught or promoted to our children.

Why does it matter to you how the rest of society chooses to live their lives, whether it be with or without a religion in their life? Does it really bother you that much that your neighbors might not believe in God or even a different deity? Shouldn't it only matter how you choose to live your own life? Why must you push it onto others?

How is being held up in movies, television and music even remotely close to being equally protected under the law?

No, they were rightfully arrested for trying to incite a riot, blocking public streets and disobeying police orders. Being elderly does not mean a person is unable to do any of these things.

And why would you expect gay people to be tolerant of a group of people who are not being tolerant of them? How is that logical? If someone came up to you and told you that they believed you were going to hell because you are a disgusting abomination in the eyes of their God, would you feel like you were being tolerated?

You preach tolerance yet you refuse to accept or allow anyone to behave differently outside of your own worldview. Not very tolerant if you ask me.

I don't think a fetus should be aborted, I don't believe in forced abortion. I think women should be able to make the choice to have an abortion or not at any stage of pregnancy. You really need to stop misreading what my position is.

 

It's sad when you see segments of the population with such immoral, ungodly values. That life for them is nothing…but the power of one to take away from another. In this case….the power of a mother who decides whether or not her child lives or dies…when she was the one responsible for allowing their conception to happen. Personal responsibility is a concept that not many pro-aborts values. They blame, they mock, they laugh at even the thought of a child's life in the womb. It does not matter to them because life is cheap. Whether or not they were irresponsible is not important…its responsible to allow the life to live and that is what your position does not get and for all the obvious reasons.

It should not be up to you…to determine who gets to have and raise children. You talk about rights…the rights of the woman to kill…then you want to take rights away from people. This is the type of attitude that is so dangerous that is taking America down.

 

I never said I want to decide who gets to raise children. You are really good at making assumptions and putting words into other people's mouths, that's for sure.

I just think it's weird that some pro-lifers here, such as Anders for example, keep screaming about how women who have abortions are so irresponsible but then in the same breath lifers also say they want them to give birth to and raise the child. Do you believe it is a good idea for irresponsible people to be looking after children?

 

You are taking the rights away for living humans….by killing them. And Anders is right…you are wrong. They aren't irresponsible if they have the child and do not choose death. But then you don't see this. You only see the abortion table… You think any reason to abort….any time to abort…is ok. so a living ninth month old killed is just great for you….because THAT PERSON MIGHT…MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO BE A GOOD PARENT.

 

By that type of reasoning it should be okay to "abort" a baby that has already been born. And infanticide would be okay too. A mother of three could terminate one of her children because she "cares about the providing a good life to the other two".

This is completely ridiculous, as you well know. No mother that actually cares about her children would ever choose death for one to provide a "better life" for another.