Any wealthy here that support higher taxes?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by .daniel, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    12,540
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Instead of higher taxes, why not a flat or consumption tax which is fair for all and brings in more revenue that the government gets under the current system, is that too simple?

    We have been going down this same spending road since Dubya was in elected and Congress has been so divided along Partisan lines we have a government that has failed to get a grip on the matter, time for all that to end, but along with that we as a Nation have to pay the piper for our actions, that means we all should have to do our part, rich, middle-class and poor alike because like it or not we are all in the same boat.
     
  2. FFbat

    FFbat New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You'll learn not to argue with Rise. Best to just ignore him.
     
  3. FFbat

    FFbat New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why not both, but instead of a consumption tax, add a tariff, so the 'consumption tax' is tied to buying foreign product.
     
  4. .daniel

    .daniel New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You seem to misunderstand the article you cited. 33% does not mean a 33% tax rate, it means 33% as a share of GDP. Our federal revenue as a share of GDP is around 16% this year if I remember, and 18% on historical average. The tax rate increase President Obama has suggested would bump that up around one percentage point of GDP. That puts us nowhere near the 33% mark. In fact, the economic paper you cited would suggest that, if 33% is the laffer curve, that we maximize our revenues by getting as close to that point as we can without exceeding it. If you're arguing that 33% is ideal, then you're arguing for a massive tax hike in comparison to what President Obama is calling for. I would actually support a hike like that. So we're on the same page. :D

    You also misunderstand income inequality. Of the increases in income over the past thirty years, most of it has gone to the upper few. The average person has seen their wage stay around the same, if even that. Factor in increased cost of living, and you could easily argue that their wages have plummeted since they must spend more and more every year. That's pretty much the definition of income inequality. In addition, this recession - caused by a handful of investors that essentially crashed the economy for a quick profit and have yet to be punished - has wiped out any gains made by the middle and lower class. Reducing spending for the average American's education, their roads, and their Social Security to pay for continued tax cuts to the wealthy is insane both economically and morally considering that the wealthy are doing better than ever and paying lower taxes than they have in decades while the middle class has it harder than it has in decades.

    My main issue with a flat tax is that it does not take into account the law of diminishing returns. This effectively makes it a regressive tax. Or, in other words, 10% to someone making $30,000 a year is a whole hell of a lot more than 10% to someone making $30,000,000 a year.
     
  5. DDave

    DDave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,002
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    So pay higher taxes already. Do you need the government to tell you to do it? If you feel so strongly about it, kick in some extra yourself.

    Oh, okay, NOW I get it. You really don't WANT to pay higher taxes. You just want to CONVINCE yourself you do and claim to everyone who will listen that you do to assuage your liberal guilt. Then as soon as the rates change, you'll be on the phone with your accountant figuring out how to pay as little in taxes as possible.

    If you really wanted to pay higher taxes, you would do it and get all your rich liberal friends to do the same in a an attempt to shame other rich people into paying their "fair share". Hmm . . . .I wonder why the big talker rich libs like Gates and Buffet aren't doing that already.

    Oh . . . it's because they are full of (*)(*)(*)(*) and are just saying one thing and doing another in an attempt to convince everyone how "good" they are because they want to pay their "fair share". Rich Democrats like to hold onto their money just as much as rich Republicans do. In fact, if one goes by charitable giving reports, rich Dems like to hold on to their money EVEN MORE than rich Republicans.

    The fact that you are essentially saying "I want to but I'm not going to do it unless everyone else has to" speaks volumes about your convictions.

    Or rather, the lack thereof.
     
  6. FFbat

    FFbat New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why punish people for making money? A flat tax rate offset by a standard tax deduction based on the poverty level, the low end doesn't feel crushed, and the top end doesn't feel like they are being punished for making money. And the 'favoritism' falls off sharply after the poverty level. It also satisfies the arguments against handouts, because nothing is handed out, it's just nothing is taken from working people who can barely feed themselves.
     
  7. Libhater

    Libhater Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    12,500
    Likes Received:
    2,486
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Perhaps your question should include the poor as well. Ask a poor person who or one of the few poor who actually pays income taxes--whether they support paying higher taxes. I don't see how or why anyone would support paying higher taxes. This doesn't have to be a class warfare question.
     
  8. .daniel

    .daniel New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,384
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    For me it's 80% a practical matter. The deficit has to be closed. We can't do it through cuts alone mathematically. So there needs to be an increase in taxes and cuts in spending both. It has nothing to do with convictions or lack thereof. That's a solution I'm perfectly fine with and support because it works. The math actually checks out. That's the only reason I need to support it. Feel free to insult me all you like; that's only indicative of having nowhere else to go intellectually with your stance. 68% of millionaires support higher taxes on millionaires. 68%. This isn't some liberal fluke. Ronald Reagan raised taxes multiple times because it had to be done. The Republican party could learn a thing or two from the person they supposedly idolize.

    Why punish people for not having money? A flat tax is regressive in nature.

    And that's your problem. You view government and politics as "me, me, me", as do the other conservatives in this thread. They have no empathy. You can't empathize with gay people. If you did, you'd support gay marriage. Republicans who do empathize with them, sometimes because of family like Dick Cheney, do support it. You can't possibly comprehend giving a little more because you can afford it so that a child doesn't have to go without a good education or a healthy lunch. "Why would anyone support paying higher taxes?" Are you serious? Maybe something called love of country? As I already said: 68% of millionaires support higher taxes. Why are the nonmillionaires standing in the way of rate increases under the guise of "protecting" the wealthy?
     
  9. qwertyytrewq01943

    qwertyytrewq01943 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No, I like my money in MY pocket thank you very much.
     

Share This Page