Would you support torture in certain situations in prison

Do you mean this in a psychological or bibical context?

 

If someone is seriously mentally ill and unable to think or act rationally, how exactly are they going to be deterred?

 

In a psychological context being that most of the Bible is bull(*)(*)(*)(*).

 

No worries.

I agree, btw. It's just that in psychological parlance, there is no such thing as 'evil'.

Psychotic, narcissistic, psychopathic, all of that, yes. Evil? No.

But I am clear now how you meant it, so thanks.

 

I suppose my usage of evil includes anything that is the utmost negative to human well being.

 

Same with even simple crimes, justification/opportunity/motive are present. 40% committing crimes like embezzlement or procurement theft do not believe what they do is wrong.

However, in the cases you refer to they know and deliberately conceal and if it ever comes to light, they know there may be consequences.

You can't dismiss the OP suggestion of torture as a consequence/deterrent, as simple depraved and sick nonsense from a boy who needs counselling or locking up. Consequences have been tried before in most societies and we have only recently evolved past that mindset ourselves (didn't work out for us, OP). The people we are talking about conceal things like rendition because of the potential consequences to them or the society they protect.

 

Good, we can use it that way too, I just wanted to make sure you were not using it in some biblical sense.

And the most evil people in the world today, who could and do the most evil, are often really in the shadows. People like a Bush or a Netenyahu even, all are puppets, someone for humanity to hate on, for the evil that they do. But of course, you know as well as I do, such men are merely figureheads, unless you think Dubya was smart enough to do anything other than choke on a pretzel. And, let's be honest, all political allegiance aside, Benny just sounds like a moron. He actually just sounds like an ignorant (*)(*)(*)(*).

They are culpable, of course, but they are picked men, and I don't really mean by the people, strictly speaking. Well, they are, but they are pre picked and packaged, for the mainly dumbed down mass to 'vote' for. People really need to quit with the childish idea that democracy is real, or even good. The facts do not support either premise. I think it just gives some a warm and fuzzy feeling to deny that democracy is culpable of some of the most evil and malevolent acts, of any 'system'. Ever.

When I speak of the evil of these men, it matters not to me if the speak with an American or British accent. That does not make their evil any less evil, unless a rapist is less evil, depending on what accent he has.

I feel zero allegiance or loyalty to these men of evil, ANY of their constructs, be they in Gov, the media, whatever. Because they are all, de facto, products of that core evil. It does not matter to me if they waved a Union Jack over it, and called it 'British interests', if I could evidence that what they were doing was evil, I would regard it as more patriotic to speak against it, rather than go with the flow, or be silent.

They can have all the spin doctors, bought media, lawyers, etc, etc, etc, they wish, to put layers + layers between them and the TRUTH.

And the truth is they are evil.

I am sick of people whining in hypocrisy when a few Americans die, to be honest, and why?

Because, and it is sickening really, how many Americans do you ever read today, that even speak of the numbers of women and children, murdered, butchered, blown to bits, raped, sexually abused, burned, and put into gulags, Sandy Hook would be NOTHING compared to all the piles of dead children that your sick, psychotic, evil, twisted, subversive filth, had written up, as a false doctrine, that they wanted to happen.

If there were any humanitarian justice AT all, and any decency left in the World, these men below would be hunted down as war criminals, and hung.

 

In terms of the premise of the OP, I would wish to remind readers that Israel, against all international law, have child prisoners, and further, there is mountains of evidence to show that, as policy, spoken or otherwise, sexual abuse and torture of those children, is taking place...as I write.

Now, like I said, people cannot use the lame 'Hey, everyone has done wrong at some point, what about the Vikings', sorry, not going to let that happen.

Having child prisoners is illegal, in the context of what Israel do. No arguements about it. It is. Other countries do not engage in it. Britian do not have the army take kids, for allegations of throwing a stone at a TANK, remove their rights to legal representation, visits, make them sign 'confessions' in a language the kid does not understand, hold them without them knowing when they may get released, sexually abuse and routinely use torture against children.

Not saying we have never done bad things, esp in the past, but there are no facilities like that, in Britain or ANY Western nation today. And yet, Israel, punk state that it is, want to pretend they share our values? I think not, and if they do, I would suggest we reexamine those telling us what those 'values' are, as they sure resemble nothing I believe any NORMAL person would consider 'shared values'.

There are no torture chambers in my country, in which this goes on.

If there were, I would not go on supporting the state that go on making it possible. I would do ALL that I could to expose it, the state included, and ANY guards or soldiers, by name, involved in it.

I would personally consider it a moral and national duty. Moreover, if such places existed here, in the same context, I would give them a week before they were smashed to pieces, by swarms of people.

These matters are not secrets, they are in the public domain, anyone that engages in things like this (see links), is filth, and the enemy of mankind.

http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress....-children-by-electric-shocking-sabbah-report/

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2010/09/13/israeli-soldiers-sexually-abuse-palestinian-children/


Jack

 

All of that seems hardly relevant to the thread, always disappointing when someone derails a thread purely to use it as an opportunity to post propaganda on his personal pet obsession.

Wordpress is what? A blog site. Sabbah archives.... hardly objective. That article seems to be dated 2010. Not as you write....

 

How is it not related?

It is about torture of the most heinous kind.

That of children.

 

Apart from being biased propaganda? The OP is on about whether torturing people imprisoned for heinous crimes can ever be justifiable? (answer is no). "Torture in prisons for mass murderers", he mentions in the Poll. You are posting historic biased propaganda about children who are not heinous criminals and not in prison.

 

So you deny that Israel put kids in dungeons, against all law, and have a history of using torture on them?

But you would be happy to name and shame were it anyone else?

 

if people fear the consequences more than their urge to commit the crime itself.... then they wont do it.

 

You expect too much of people. somebody who "thinks" they have nothing to lose isn't going to consider what they still have to lose.

 

I'm a little torn about it, myself. When such things happen, it certainly makes me wish we would reinstate impalement or crucifixion as a form of capital punishment to be used for such cases. There is also the deterrence factor to take into consideration - if the legends are true, Vlad Dracula had essentially terrorised the people of Wallachia out of committing so much as theft by his cruel methods.

At the same time, though, torturing the nut will not bring those people back to life, and neither do we want to live in perpetual fear of being so treated if, say, we are found guilty of a heinous crime unjustly, which has certainly happened in many cases in the past.

Ask yourself why you wish to inflict such a punishment on those who commit these crimes. What is driving your thinking here?

 

good question. im thinking that if my child was murdered sensesly. or anyone in my family. i would want revenge. people might look down on me for it, but im not gona lie about it. its not fair that the government not only shelters and protects the criminals from truly equal punishments for their crimes. but also gives them half ass sentences no where near equivalent to their crimes. so i am mostly thinking about the victims family and trying to help them get over what has happened to them and their family.

 

Life in prison, being a half ass sentence?

 

Less is known about Vlad III than Draco, and Even Draconian law had trouble keeping the peace.

 

And I would want to cause pain to anyone who harmed one I loved. I suppose I'm more pro-death penalty than against it, though I would also like to see more done to rehabilitate criminals rather than just lock them up with other scum for a really long time and let them get worse rather than better. What we're doing now seems like the worst possible course.

 

obviously

 

I disagree. for very serious criminals. we shouldnt even waste our time/resources on rehabilitation

 

An Eye ror an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves the world toothless and blind

 

What should we do then?

And while you are at it - define "criminal"

Is the guy who got drunk and drove his car at high speed into a crowd killing 4 people the same as the guy who got drunk and fired his gun into a crowd and killed four people? How about the guy who had his first toke of Whacky weed and ended with a psychotic break? How about the guy who steals because he needs money for health care for his family?

Or here is one - how about the guy who set up a Ponzi scheme and robbed a lot of people at once - sending a lot broke and causing not a few suicides - are they worthy of "revenge"

 

Well, that is clearly not true, is it?

Otherwise any state that had the DP, would have no one killing anyone.

 

Ha.

Read about about John Venables, and James Bulger.

It makes me sick.