Where & what is your 'Hope?'

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by OverDrive, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hope:
    1: to desire with expectation of obtainment
    2: to expect with confidence : trust

    — 'hope against hope': to hope without any basis for expecting fulfillment

    Hope means a different thing to each person pending their 'expectations' and the level of their confidence it what they believe---can be an 'anchor of trust' in life's storms, or a sail with wind 'leading them forward' in their lives.

    Hope talked about in scripture:

    OT Proverbs "Hope deferred makes the heart grow sick,'

    Or in the NT, Jesus is called the hope of our salvation. And so His words as recorded by many (as in the Spirit behind them) become the basis of a follower of His in believing and 'hoping' with expectation of future fulfillment.

    To a godless individual, their hope is based on themselves & their own understanding. Their trust is centered in self as they become their own god, determining what is truth, or 'their truth.'

    99.999% of all civilizations thru out history have believed in something bigger than themselves. They only had partial understanding of their environment but all believed that they, whether consciousness or physical being, do not die at physical death but go on, as in eternity. Scripture agrees with that premise in "God has put eternity in the heart of man." Also, in regards to partial knowledge/understanding, "Now we know in part but will know all (the total) when the perfect comes."

    And so Hope is different to each & usually based on personal desires (& their truth), with the hope of the godless being: 1) a long earthly life, or 2) a quick & painless death and then becoming fertilizer, and/or 3) being no more w/o anyone or anything to judge their lives and hold them responsible for their selfish actions, etc.

    Some have called 'religion' (used to encompasses the whole of believing in a higher power) a 'crutch---where I see faith & hope in the desire to walk the straight & narrow path, putting self in 2nd, or at best, last place. "The greatest in His kingdom is the one who is a servant." And I see living a godless life w/o spiritual hope or eternity in one's heart as the ultimate 'cop out." A faulty crutch to the one who is self serving & self seeking in making their decisions & personal judgments of their core intents and subsequent actions...ergo, the "coward's" way out....
     
  2. prospect

    prospect New Member

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    I think it is amusing when someone lays claim on morality being anything other than a reword/punishment system. That is the foundation of morality. You do the right thing because you either feel bad if you don't or feel good if you do. That is your reword and punishment wrapped up in a nice,neat little bow.

    As opposed to your system in which there is no gun but you still get a reword for doing the right thing,and are completely unmotivated against doing the wrong thing.

    This doesn't follow your initial complaint about how our morality system is inferior to yours, this is describing people that want to be recognized.
     
  3. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Reminds me of a sign on a wall in a nearby restaurant/bar. "Free beer, TOMORROW". The sign's been hanging there for years.
     
  4. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Think that would fall more in the category of "gullible:"

    Adj. 1. gullible - naive and easily deceived or tricked

    As also those who get involved with 'cults' may fall into that category. As scripture warning of such says, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind." Which can also be applied to following any & all false leaders (secular included) to their destruction.

    Those who follow a 'man,' with all his lusts and prideful (self-centered) desires, put their faith & hope in but a false messiah; whereas, the 'man' of whom Christians walking in truth shud follow is the humble servant who pointed to His Father and was called "obedient even unto death, the death on a cross."

    As Hope is a certainty of belief that has not yet fully manifested.
    And Salvation of the body, soul & spirit of a believer (who created in the 'image' of God is also a triune being) is life-long: his spirit in the now, his soul (mind & will) thru the washing by the words of Christ along the straight & narrow path of his lifetime walk ('reprogramming' as it were), & with the salvation of his earthly mortal body at the resurrection with an eternal like 'glorified' body as the resurrected Christ's and was promised to those following Him...and so the 'hope' thru Christ will be fully manifested to each at their resurrection.

    Btw, Ph.., so you have been showing up there for years (per your post) just in 'expectation' of the fulfillment of that sign.. [​IMG]
     
  5. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

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    ....that would be you.

    See?

    You are following a cult to such a degree that you are unable to even trust your own people.

    Who told you these things? You read them in a book written by... a man, with all his lusts etc etc etc

    You will die and turn to dust regardless of hope.
     
  6. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is this Bishadi's wife or sister? Sounds like another angry, irreverent poster.

    Well, I have 30+ years studying the scriptures as well as the non-canonized forbidden books, the writings of the 2nd generation of Apostles who sat under John, etc., and so my understandings and following of the words of Christ are not a short term flash in the pan.

    I wont waste any personal anecdotes on you as they are just crudely dismissed w/o meaning as pearls are to the swine.

    And so let me then ask you how many years have you spent searching the scriptures, looking for truths, so as to make your judgment concerning me?

    It is posters like you 2 who water down this section and make it but an exercise in futility...but thx, I need this occasional reminder of why not to post here.......
     
  7. stig42

    stig42 New Member

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    you do this

    To a godless individual, their hope is based on themselves & their own understanding. Their trust is centered in self as they become their own god, determining what is truth, or 'their truth
     
  8. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Why do you need hope? It sounds like people who need hope don't trust their favorite deity to do the right thing. The idea of hope in a religious setting goes against the concept of God's will being done on Earth as it is in heaven.

    It's a waste of time and energy for religious people to have hope. It's like praying. Your deity will give you what you need when you need it, according to Matthew 6:25-34. So why waste time praying for it? And if you suffer misfortune it's because God punishes the ones he loves.

    Amos 3:2 (CEB) = You only have I loved so deeply of all the families of the earth. Therefore, I will punish you for all your wrongdoing.

    Hebrews 12:6 (NLT) = For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.

    Revelation 3:18 (CEV) = I correct and punish everyone I love. So make up your minds to turn away from your sins.

    (That's some sick stuff. I beat you to a pulp because I love you so much.)
     
  9. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Nah, I've been showing up there for years because I like their grilled chicken.
     
  10. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, so you go because of the "Free Grilled Chicken TOMORROW" sign? Got it. That sign would suck me in too since I love chicken fixed 'anyway.' Arent 'we' assassin-killed meat eaters absolutely shameless---where's our 'enlightenment?!!'

    BTW, I'm done with this thread and am just returning a response to your 'civilized' posting .........
     
  11. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

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    I understand Bishadi less than I understand how a person of reason can suspend reality and humanity for long enough to buy into religious fiction.

    Is there any objectivity in your study? Is it an utter suspension of reality, or do you ever consider the evidence?

    Have you ever taken a break for a couple of years and lived completely without religion, then returned and looked at it with objective eyes as if you had never seen it before?

    Oink oink

    I spent my formative years entrenched and immersed in it and teetered on the verge of a nunnery. Thereafter I spent a few years searching for truths and finding so few it had potential to make me lose the will to live, were I not such an irrepressibly buoyant little character.

    Now you know I don't judge you however that seemed. I expect if you check the time of that post, it was very late here.

    What do you expect? You disappear for months at a time and then expect to be welcomed on return... you're reading too much of that prodigal son fairy tale :boxing:
     
  12. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cant let a 'civilized' post go by w/o a response:

    You keep getting religion confused with following the words of a man claiming to be the Son of God, full of mercy & truth, and grace for the sinner. He only came against the 'religious' ppl of His time, the Pharisees who were steeped in dead tradition and w/o heart, and therefore could not receive his words.

    BTW, I was raised in 'religion' as a Catholic, was an altar boy, and then went out into the world during my military time (touring Europe) and subsequent college years. But as a true Prodigal, not rejecting God as such, but just doing my own thing, I did come back---but NOT back to 'religion!' I've learned not to look at a denomination or men but to focus on digging out the truths, the spiritual nuggets as it were, in the scriptures. And so I have come to understanding the words of Christ, why He is hated to this very day ("The world will hate you because they hated Me"), and why many are angry at 'religion' en total.....therefore I always say that "I am NOT religious,' as even worshipping a pencil can become a religion!

    I do believe that those who rebel against formal religion, but who truly have a heart for the things of God, will at some point come back to a relationship & trust in His grace.

    See you down 'the road'....OD
     
  13. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    all are equally as children of 'god' (the sign to know the time)

    and it is the religious sobs, that can't see truth as it is constantly unveiling!
     
  14. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If Americans who can read would read the New Testament the matter would be entirely clear.
     
  15. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    And all of them eventually collapsed or were replaced.
     
  16. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What about Russia & China (both godless)..they are paragons of human rights & success, huh?
     
  17. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    If you're speaking of the Soviet Union...it collapsed.

    But if we note the fact that all other civilizations in history had theism...we also must note that it is matched by the fact that all civilizations throughout history collapsed.

    To say "All civilizations did it" is not a automatic declaration of the value or usefulness of anything. Upto the 20th Century.....all civilizations believed in patriarchy and denied women the right to vote. Does that support the "value" of being patriarchael???
     
  18. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Also, all Republics have collapsed within 250 yrs, the US's being the oldest. But, all successful western empires have come to ruin by their own means---hedonism, etc. So do you see that Christianity is bringing this 'empire' down, or is it the lack of values, integrity, and morals that has taken it to such a point after the glorious post-war 50's & 60's?
     

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