Do animals have souls?

This is love at first sight then, Mr Tito...
Indeed.

Post some infoirmation in regard to evidence of "brain feedbacks " so I can add the ideas to my own inventory of facts and evidence concerning "humanity's progression is subject to its own subject self reflection over a collective consciousness."

I must warn you that people on this site will not agree wiuth us and get angry and vile because these insights are damaging to their religious ideas and they will become abusive in irder to maintain their archaic religious positions concerning their own concepts of a metaphysical and unknowable soul.
Religions ingeneral do not want and will ioppose a rational interpretatiin of a soul, because it has always been that element inside each person which they have sought to appeal in regard to eternal life when they set down their rules and doctrines concerning the paths that must be taken in life.

In my own concept, I see growth and accumulation of Truth as the one path which leads to the continuation of our species, and hence the eternal presence on earth of the Human Gene Pool.


I welcome and encourage your thoughts and references in regard to this idea.

 

I'm in a hurry, and I'm usually left frustrated when discussing these ideas on account that they spiral infinitely by their very nature and something always appears to be left unfinished. Kinda like the nature of science itself.

When I wrote the post you quoted, I was vaguely contemplating the conceptions of the eight-circuit model of consciousness espoused by Wilson, Leary and Alli.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-circuit_model_of_consciousness#5._The_neurosomatic_circuit

It's a tangent, but ultimately, it relates to exercising any form of mind discipline or alteration in consciousness in order to acheive experiences that are somewhat (if not totally) similar to those described in the sixth and seventh circuits pursuant to that link.

Hope that doesn't sound like hokey mumbo jumbo to you. But it is interesting. Especially when one has experienced some of the experiences mentioned.

 

Your only contributions to this thread were:

(1) "I hold an esoteric understanding of god and the universe and this makes me intrisically right and immune from providing any evidence to support my point of view"
(2) Assorted insults

You were asked to explain and substantiate what is meant by your understanding that your religious views supercede any philosophical dialogue.

This challange is still open to you.

 

Yes, this insistence upon maintaining archaic and irrational esoteria concerning the scriptures is fundamental to these people who thereby can manufacture a baseless and unsubstantiated interpretation of the Bible.
They can maintain and defend their own hypothesis concerning what the scriptures say.

Their ideas are as valid as anyone else's.
Unless...

Unless empirical evidence in support of some unique hypothesis different from their emerges.

But the prophecy we await fulfillment for is that just such a unique empirically supported and evidence based explanation of scripture is to come and then we will all know the truth:

1Cor. 13:12 For now we see through a glass (of our times), darkly, (for instance, we are at the disadvantage, that prophecy is yet to be fulfilled and history is yet occur that makes some things more clear); but then, (in that promised day, when knowledge abounds: [Dan 12:4]), face to face, (with insight into our own past that has been phylogenetically stored in our Unconscious mind):
now I know (only) in part; but then shall I know (in hindsight), even as also I am known (tangibly to you, now).

These other teaching of the religious community can not give a rational hypothesis to explain these verses but they will try to prevent any rational explanations to arise either.
They will not admit that the rational concepts should be on the table, along with their own unexplained and unsupported esoteric ideas.

The reason is there is no other rational explanation for these now esoteric concepts, so rationality become the enemy to them.

 

From what I've gathered, I think your views and mine are similar, but this is one of my favorite topics, so I'll chime in.

I believe that consciousness is fundamental. I have no idea where it came from, maybe the "big consciousness" (of which we are all little tiny parts of, including dogs, bugs, and all other life forms) knows and understands where it came from, maybe it just is. That "big consciousness" is, at the end of the day, the only thing that's "real".

Quantum physics shows us that our reality is not as it appears. Just as the closer you look at an image the more pixelated, the same thing seems to happen to our supposedly physical reality. On the contrary, what we've learned is that physical objects only exist as physical objects when we look at them. When we're not looking, their behavior acts as though it were being calculated, not actually occurring. That means we live in the Matrix.

The big consciousness has created this reality frame, and countless others, in order to evolve. It has broken itself into countless pieces and placed restraints on those pieces so that their experiences are limited to a rule set. In this reality frame, we call that rule set physics. And our purpose, like our higher selves, is to evolve, to learn, to achieve enlightenment, and to become pure love.

 

That is pretty good.

1) I would argue that your conclusion is a little off.
As far as our Conscious mind has been able to determine, in regard to the external world, our purpose is to survive.
Survival is not only the Prime Instinct for us personally, in that, but we do and will fight to survive without any intellectualizing on the subject,

We do not want to die.
To survive is the foundation of our theories about evolution, that we must and must have done whatever was necessary to survive.

The lessons that scripture is trying to teach us is that in order to accomplish this survival, we must cooperate with one another.
The bible is telling us that we are not an island, but we are all on a team which by working together, can survive.

Call that Love, if you will, but pure love is a little misleading.
If we love life and hate death, personally, we need use the power of love between us and others in te name of team work.
We can see this very clearly in the present technological society we live in, where the whole world depends upon trade and a network of technological services just to function at the present level.


2) I agree that we are really just the Thoughts that Descartes said assure us that we exist, whatever we might actually be.
From infancy, we have imagined that our body exists because we realized our hands and toes can be moved if we THINK to make them move.

We have imagine what we look like, what other people look like, what the whole external world looks like from the empirical deductions we have made using our seven senses that bring information into our mind.

Empirical.
Like science.
We have used our seven senses to deduce what we and the world looks like.
We have assured ourselves, scientifically, that these deductions are correct, because every test of this image of the external world and the form of our own bodily existence has been successful.

3) But the bottom line is that pain demands our attention to this imaged world external to our conscious thinking.

We MUST depend upon this imagined world for nurturing, and we must react to its constant and unceasing partnership with it.
This image we have constructed by deductions will let us milk it, but demand we behave in specific ways or suffer correction.
We are actually a subject to this thing we have have discerned as the external world which never let's us forget that "I am here."

 

Religious views ARE philosophical.

 

If a 'triune' God (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) did create man in His image (body, soul, & spirit), the soul (mind, will, emotions) differentiated from the spirit, but entwined as the word of God is said to be a sword able to separate the 2 per scripture; then an animal does have a mind & will & emotions, but no spirit as not in the image of God, but ergo, does have a 'soul.'

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

 

If my Golden Doodles don't have spirits then I don't want one.

 

Interesting verse and comments.

The soul is the mind, and it is composed of ten spirits of mind that can overdrive our behavior and dominate our Conscious thinking.
The triune mind is Conscious, Preconscious, and the Unconscious.
The Preconscious contains seven "spirits" of mind or archetypes.

What modern psychology tells us is that the spirits can and do dominate in a hierarchy which separates the spirit from the whole soul, and determines our Myers/Briggs Personality Type which classifies us int one of a dozen or so categories.
These categories are unique perceptions and points of view into the external world which mirror separate and slightly different interpretations of what exists as the definition of Reality.

 

This is essentially true.

But religious Bible interpretations are like Book Reports,.

They differ denominational because the philosophical perspective of the "student" reporting on the Bible is one of the dozen or so philosophically based perspectives that "student-of-the-Bible" has used in order to make what he read conform with the philosophy he began with.


This then means that the dozen or so philosophical points of view thereafter have become hard-headed religiously back and fanatically supported world views stamped with the assumed approval of a God believed to have confirmed each of the philosophical outlooks.

The Stoic will not only report on what he insists the Bible is telling men to accept a god-recommended Stoicism.
But he will say the more agnostic Epicurean is wrong to believe a little more liberal pleasure in life is acceptable behavior according to the epicurean god-view, based upon the fact that epicurean has found the Bible to say a little wine is good for the soul.

It is no coincidence that Christianity has basically boiled down to the twelve major mainstream denominational Christian Churches enumerated in the World Almanac,m plus a large number sects, cults, and idiosyncratic minor divisions like the Moonies, for instance.

 

BTW...As the physical brain is entwined with the soul, as science still does not understand consciousness, that melding of the physical w/the soul as the 'mind'. As scripture says , the spirit of man 'wars' with his flesh, and the soul is the battleground of that war.

Also,' separating joint & marrow' per the same scripture: Looking at a beef steak bone, the round bone in a pkgd cut, there is marrow in the middle and hard bone on the outside..but where does the marrow stop and the hard bone begin?! Again, the entwining of 2 both considered as the 'bone.'

en·twine
v. en·twined, en·twin·ing, en·twines

1. To twine around or together

 

Yes, the Body/Mind seems relevant to the "entwining" of the so-of-man with the son-of-God.

I see the son-of-man as a mere mortal whose spirit of mind was the model of that immortal ideal we call Truth.
This distinction is very supportive of the Jewish traditions of the two messiahs, one the suffering messiah and the other, the Kingly.
It is hard but the rabbi have been able to do it, i.e.; ignore that the suffering messiah seems to have come already, de facto of 32AD and the complete fulfillment of everything those traditons concerning the messiah ben Joseph was expected to accomplish:



http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5849-eschatology,

The Messiah will furthermore win the heathen by the spirit of wisdom and righteousness which rests upon him (Sibyllines, iii. 780; Test. Patr., Levi, 18; Judah, 24; Targ. Yer. to Gen. xlix. 12 and Isa. xli. 1).

He will teach the nations the Noachian laws of humanity , (which say the Gentile converts need not observe the 613 Jewish Laws)...

...and he will make all men disciples of the Lord (Midr. Teh. xxi.).

The wonders of the time of Moses , (miracles), will be repeated on a larger scale in the time of the Messiah (Mek., Beshallaḥ, Shirah, 8, after Micah vii. 15; comp. Hosea ii. 17; Targ.; Tan., Bo, ed. Buber, 6).

What Moses, the first redeemer, did is typical of what the Messiah as the last redeemer will do (Eccl. R. i. 9). The redemption will be in the same month of Nisan, (at the Passover seders), ....
...and in the same night (Mek., Bo, 14); the same pillar of cloud will lead Israel (Philo, "De Execrationibus," 8; Targ. Yer. to Isa. xxxv. 10):

the same plagues will be sent upon Israel's foes, (as the Roman Empire converts to monotheism) (Tan., Wa'era, ed. Buber, 15; Bo, 6, 19; Midr. Wayosha'; Jellinek, "B. H." i. 45);

the redeemer will ride on an ass (Zech. ix. 9; comp. Ex. iv. 20);

.... manna, (transubstantiation?) will again be sent down from heaven See John 6; and (Ps. lxxii. 16; comp. Ps. lxxviii. 24; Syriac Apoc. Baruch, xxix. ;

...and water rise from beneath by miraculous power (Joel iv. [A. V. iii.] 18; comp. Ps. lxxviii. 15 et seq.; Eccl. R. i. 9).
Like Moses, the Messiah will disappear for 90 or 45 days (or 40 days and 40 nights")... after his appearance i.e.; baptism by John... (Pesiḥ. R. 15; Pesiḥ. v. 49b, after Hosea v. 15).

The same number of people will be redeemed (Sanh. 111a) and the Song of Moses be replaced by another song , i.e.; The Gospels,...(Mek., Beshallaḥ, Shirah, 1; Rev. xv. 3).

But, like Moses, the Messiah will die (II Esd. l.c.); the opinion that the Messiah will not taste death (Midr. Teh. lxxii. 17) seems to be of later origin, and will be discussed in connection with the account of the Messiah from the tribe of Joseph or Ephraim (that discussion will concern his dying but resurrection, which was what confused the rabbi here)

 

No. Modern psychology don't .

 

Jesus didn't do any of that.

 

Except it aint boiled down to 12 major denominations.

 

It's tough when a beloved pet dies. Hang in there.

 

What page does it say that "Christianity basicallly boils down to 12 mainstream denominations"?


That book is a comparison of some denominations. The focus is specifically on 12, but that aint a claim that Christianity boils down to only 12.

You ain even listed the Assyrian Church, Eastern Orthodox,


bTW, Methodist is a subset of Anglican while Pentacost and Adventist is a subset of Methodist.

So to claim that this book is focused on 12 major denominations when some of them listed are further divisions of major denominations don't even make sense.


Get a clue, bro.

You have to actually OPEN BOOKS to understand their contents. You can't just read a title.

 

"Christianity basicallly boils down to 12 MAJOR mainstream denominations"...

 

# 12 makes me smile.

 

Yes, Catholicism represents 1/2 of the christian population.

But the twelve major mainstream denominational christian churches represent the 12 foundation walls of the New Jerusalem, imo.
Through the portals of these major American churches the christians enter into the city of religion which certainly will all be in agreement with the messiah who comes for the lesson he will teach and the doctrines he will make uniform among them all.

Rev. 21:19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious (Christian) stones. The first foundation was (THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH) jasper; the second (ORTHODOX EASTERN CATHOLIC CHURCH), sapphire; the third, (LUTHERANS), a chalcedony; the fourth, (EPISCOPALIANS), an emerald;

Rev. 21:20 The fifth, (PRESBYTERIANS), sardonyx; the sixth, (METHODISTS), sardius; the seventh, (THE BAPTISTS), chrysolite; the eighth, (CHURCH OF CHRIST'S DISCIPLES), beryl; the ninth, (UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST), a topaz; the tenth, (LATTER-DAY-SAINTS AND MORMONS), a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, (PENTECOSTALS), a jacinth; the twelfth, (JEHOVAH WITNESSES), an amethyst.




Ecumenicalism is around the corner.

 

Your graphic is a timeline.

 

You're missing Nestorians, Chaldeans, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Unitarian.

 

IMO, they have a soul that is different from human souls.