If gay marriage was legalized...

No wonder 'divorce' in traditional marriages is so rampant.

 

And the meaning of that is proprietary. That is to say that "unnatural" does not mean 'bad' or 'evil'.

So, let's be clear about that.

 

BS- non-procreative sexuality is present all through nature- even insects. And people do it constantly and don't procreate.

In the words of Rufus Wainwright, "Mowing the lawn is against nature." Are you against mowing the lawn too?

 

No, I'm not against the mowing of lawns.

I just find human's sexuality behavior to be very unnatural from a strictly scientific Point of View!!!

 

That' funny, since it's not just humans who behave in that manner.

 

OK, whatever, this discussion is now officially over.

 

I, too, will have to ask you to explain what are these lifestyle choices with which you disagree?

Calling homosexuality a "lifestyle choice" comes directly from anti-gay propaganda. They used to call it a 'lifestyle', but after getting called out so many times on the fact that a lifestyle is not solely one's choices related to sexuality, they've since tacked on the word "choices", which of course also reinforces the stance that homosexuality is solely a behavior and a matter of choice, rather than being an unchosen orientation that drives a person's behavior.

Moreover, while you're welcome to your opinion, it's a bit arrogant to think that disagreeing with a person's personal choices should be of any importance to the discussion. You aren't the boss of them, so why should they care what you think about it?

As a matter of law, people are required to obtain a marriage license in order to have that marriage recognized and to receive the benefits, protections, and imposition of legal responsibilities tied to government recognition. Whether or not government should be involved in marriage is of course debatable. I'll put it this way: Marriage is contractual by nature; it's a union that two people commit to form, with each party having certain expectations of the other. A contract has not force without some authority acting to recognize its existence.

I'm well aware of this, since my partner and I consider ourselves married, but our marriage is not recognized by the state. Our contract has no one to give it force; we are instead operating on an 'honor system'; I trust and expect him to fulfill the obligations of his commitment to me, and vice versa. Maybe that's all any marriage should be, but the plain fact is that it's a situation that can allow one party to take incredible advantage of the other and then just abandon the obligation without consequence. Government is invovled in marriage, and it shows no signs of ceasing that involvement.

This is social custom, and has symbolic meaning for some people. I personally don't require a ceremony to know that I have obligations to my partner as a part of our marriage. I do not consider a wedding ceremony and marriage to be synonymous. Marriage is far more than just the ceremony at which a couple pledge themselves to each other before witnesses. The marriage is what happens afterward and as a result of that commitment.

Absolutely nothing, apart from the purpose of ensuring that the couple are entering into this agreement of their own freely given, uncoerced consent, which is part of the ceremony.

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Sin is a matter of religious belief; it has nothing whatsoever to do with science.

 

Ridiculous. Sexuality is clearly not solely for reproduction. Bonobos are proof enough of that. Moreover, what is natural is not a guide to what is moral. Sterile straight couples are still following through on a biological urge in having sexual relations, regardless of its futility. Arguably any couple engaging in sexual behavior is - gay couples included.

 

Sure....

People have sex for the sake of it and that is a fact. Nothing unnatural about that.

Feeling even more sorry for your partner. Hell, maybe she should have her clitoris removed to make sure she never enjoys the deed!

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Little boy.

 

So you admit you're wrong?

 

You interlocutor was lacking practical insight.

 

I find this to be a ridiculous notion, but if it's how you want to live your life, go for it. Where I get my panties in a bunch is when people who feel as you do decide the rest of us need to live that way, under force of law.

 

No, procreation is about producing another life.

Sexuality encompasses far more than procreation, it is an amalgamation of our likes, dislikes, fantasies, what arouses us and so much more.

There is nothing black and white about sexuality.

 

Im going to stick my neck out and hope that people here understand and realize that other people can have another point of view on even a hotbutton subject like Homosexuality and not be a hateful person who wishs anyone harm.

I have a 42 yr old daughter who has been married twice and is a grand mother who suddenly decided after leaving her second husband to enter a gay relationship. Ive heard all the reasons why this supposedly happens, ive listened and paid attention to them and I disagree to an extent. I believe with females gay couples can be learned emotional behavior. I believe with men it has to be bred into them meaning they are born with it.
I am for gay unions that allow homosexuals to have civil rights to hospital stays and to make partner decisions and to even share benefits etc. I am against formal homosexual marriage and I fully understand that gay marriage will be the law of the land eventually.
Why am I against formal gay marriage if Im for giving them all the rights and benefits of it ? because to me it denigrates what marriage is about...marriage is about a man and woman and FAMILY...two gay men or women cannot create a family they can apply for one...or they can do it through science or a surrogate...but they cannot create a family or life alone. I know all the arguments against what I believe, trust me ive heard them all...ive been badgered by gays over my position, ive been called a bigot and a homophobe which is absurd and none of it has nchanged my mind.

 

And since what other people do is none of your business, I really don't care what your opinion is. All that matters is that we get treated equally under the law. Quite honestly, I get tired of defending and explaining myself to people like you.

 

"Jumping gender: frogs change from she to he."

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Jumping+gender:+frogs+change+from+she+to+he.-a08784789

"Shrimp do it, orchids do it, even some tropical fish do it. Now biologists find that frogs do it, too--switch their sex, that is. A West German research team reports that females of two related frog species can become males without hormonal or surgical intervention. So complete is the transformation -- observed so far only in the laboratory -- that the newly male frogs breed successfully with members of their former sex. "

.

 

Since you decided to get snotty ..You cant defend yourself to me, its not about you. The thread was about gay marriage. Its not enough for homosexuals to have every financial benefit and right as all single men and women plus all the rights and financial access of married heterosexuals...you demand whatever it is you want. You want to take marriage and make it the way you want it to be...wedding vows that have always been say DO you take this WOMAN to be your lawfully wedded wife and do you take this MAN etc..whether you like it or not its the 94% of heterosexuals that are normal and its the 6% homosexuals that are not. When two men can create life then we can have another discussion.
My opinion counts as much as yours...and its attitudes like yours that make the issue more contentious

 

BS. We've already won. Like it or not, the majority of the country is in favor of equal marriage rights regardless of gender. Your more than welcome to your opinion, as long as you opinion no longer affects my life and the lives of others like me with regard to the law.

BTW- I missed the part where marriage requires procreation. There are a lot of people out there breaking the law if that's the case.

 

den·i·grate
/ˈdeniˌgrāt/Verb
Criticize unfairly; disparage: "there is a tendency to denigrate the poor".

Synonyms
blacken - slander - defame - vilify - asperse - malign

How does two people of the same sex marrying do any of the above to marriage?

You're welcome to your opinion of what marriage is about, but please don't mistake your opinion for being the only valid one, or as absolute fact. Just because you have an opinion, that doesn't make you right.

According to your requirements cited above, any couples who adopt and their adopted children are not a family. Likewise any opposite-sex couple that uses surrogacy. Do you stand by your argument that straight couples raising children who are not the biological product of both spouses fail to constitute a family?

Then why are you here? If you've heard all of the arguments, then there is nothing for you to learn or gain from hearing them repeated. It would appear you have a closed mind on the issue. Why should any of us waste our time engaging you?

 

I do not find that your opinion 'counts' if you're unable to adequately defend it. You are acting as if the very fact that you have an opinion counts for something. Do you know the old saying about opinions?

In a forum such as this, having an opinion is not enough. You will need to defend that opinion. If you can't do so with something more than appeals to tradition and circular reasoning, then I see no reason for anyone here to take your opinion seriously.

 

You sound like a rotten little kid that doesn't want anyone to play with his toys.
Mine mine mine!

 

You have me confused with your cohort kohler

 

I more than adequately defend my position its you that are unreasonable and will not accept anything but what you want when you want it and how you want it to be...to that I say tough and good day...and just keep in mind I tried to keep a civil tone and explain I have no animosity towards homosexuals and I believe they should have the same rights as anyone else...I am against destroying formal marriage as its always been for the 94% normal human beings for a handful of whiney snotnoses having little temper tantrums becuase they want what they want and the want it right now, my opinion t wasnt good enough for you so you decided to become arrogant and sarcastic, which doesnt impress me one iota.

 

We should take your word for it that you have adequately defended your position here? Anyone want to take a vote on that one?

Ad hominem. You have not shown this accusation to be true, and the purpose in making it is clearly to discredit me as a substitute for having to make/defend an actual argument.

Except that you don't, since you would withhold marriage from them. I have not found your tone civil. I found your very first post to be baiting, as if you had a chip on your shoulder and were daring anyone to knock it off. It has just gone downhill from there.

Seems you feel no shortage of animosity toward homosexuals.

You have provided no argument supporting this idea that same-sex couples marrying destroys "formal marriage". How does it accomplish that?

"normal" apparently being a proxy for "moral" or "good". "94%" being a meaningless statistic that you apparently pulled out of your ass. And don't think I missed the attempt to get people to infer that homosexuals are somehow less than human.

Oops, your animosity is showing. You appear to be the only one here having a temper tantrum.

How long should they have to wait?

You are not a supreme being whose opinion trumps all others. And yes, I do not find your expression of your unsupported opinion to be "good enough".

You're welcome to hold whatever opinion of me you like. No one cares.

I'm not here to impress you. I'm here for a thoughtful discussion of the issues. I am not here for childish whining when one's opinion is challenged.

In my judgment, you are not ready for "prime time". If we could vote on the retention of new members, you would receive my

 

Allowing gays to marry will not destroy formal marriage. Formal marriage will still exist just as it always has. Your religion doesn't have to sanction gay marriage as acceptable. The government, however, must be impartial. The fact remains that these couples will exist whether you like it or not.