Is America more feminist driven than Europe?

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by Nanninga, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Nanninga

    Nanninga Member

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    Dear PF community, recently I read an article, which suprised me:

    Cases like this are crushing triumphs for feminists. This young men is excluded from education by university regulations even while the state prosecutors ceased his file and opened up against the student for false allegations. Obviously a way in which feminists can exclude male students from education, which works 100% safe.

    I would have thought such things are possible in Scandinavia or other radical feminist states, but not in the US. Is the US even more driven by feminist lobbies?
     
  2. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    No, Sweden is the proud leader in feminist madness thenk you very much. you ain't got nothing
     
  3. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Exactly what I was going to say.

    At one point, a few of them were even abducting young women into their midst and indoctrinating them. The police mostly refused to go anywhere near it.
     
  4. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    You can not compare a country to a continent , in Scandinavia women are treated like holy cows and in eastern Europe they are treated like dirt .
     
  5. Nanninga

    Nanninga Member

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    I mean rather Western Europe. What was to my interest, how far these feminist lobbies went on in America. I am not sure and it is difficult to compare but I think these consequences the young man faced even after it turned out that it was a false accusation, would not have been the outcome of this mess here.
     
  6. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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  7. Nanninga

    Nanninga Member

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    I dont know the case you are talking about, so I cannot say anything about that. Could you please point out how this case falsifies my statement and proving my claims to be wrong?


    That is up to you.
    Who the hell was demanding you should tolerate condescencion? I dont see the context with my post.

    Hmmmm, ok ...


    It's a crushing triumph for feminists that a man even found not guilty by the state authorities with even the so called victim accused is excluded from education in his state on the basis of university statute women's activists fought through. It comes closer to the feminist ideal of a man without any chance of a fair trial. They did not get the whole law enforcement, but at least the universities' statute.

    No, this event is only harmful to the victim of such false accusation.

    Yes, it was of course the voluntary deal of this student to be falssely accused of rape. Now we can all see, you write like a real feminist.
    I am interested in how far feminists have gone to in the US. I am not the one who is interested if US guys die under the bridges, die in a war for Israel in Iran or study at universities. Thats the affair of the American people. Its neither my country nor my generation. At least I would think its politicallly not welcomed to have many guys getting a good education, when I read about such cases.
     
  8. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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  9. Nanninga

    Nanninga Member

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    I start to loose my patience. Did you read the topic at all? The student was excluded despite of proven innocence, because of university statutes set upon the universities by women's right acitivists. Did you get the topic now? The problem is not only the false accusation, the problem is that a false accusation fully paid off even if it was proven to be wrong!


    Oh, fine. And a bear is what to you? A lion?

    It was his turn to make this case public, again, are you unable to read? He was forbidden to enter ND university for three years!

    Here is not the question if he wanted to or not. He was simply kicked out despite of proven innocence.

    She at least was allowed to continue and make her degree.



    You of course never heard of the women's right movement and the old demand for a burden of proof in rape cases or feminist's statement that want to see the power of definition whether a man is a rapist or if it was rape or not should be the women's decision alone.

    How old are you? I cannot bear, how one can write such an unbelievable ignorant nonsense, denying the simply facts about the feminist's movement. Do I really have to burden the server capacities with numerous of feminist's quotes which shows their ambitions just because of you as a wannabe feminist who has obviously no idea about feminist goals?

    Yes and I contradicted and set clear it is harmful only for the man as it is most obvious for the reader. It's funny your arrogant accusations come along with such an intellectual meagerness and the inability to write even your arrogant statements correctly.

    Yes, he was kicked out innocently and she stayed although as false accuser. Sounds like a fair distribution of harm,

    If you meant it that way, whats the connex to me post????

    Enough of your boring drivel, I dont reply to that nonsense anymore!
     
  10. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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  11. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    Written by Plains Daily Report.


    GRAND FORKS, ND – Nearly two years have gone by since University of North Dakota student Caleb Warner was accused of rape and expelled by the school, but now he’s attending classes again in Grand Forks.

    Warner had been expelled by UND after another student accused him of rape, but after an investigation law enforcement officials cleared Warner of wrong doing and charged his accuser instead for making false allegations.
     
  12. Spade115

    Spade115 New Member

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    Would this not be more of how rape laws are flawed more then its a womens fault?
     
  13. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    Depends on what you mean by 'this".

    The University like any university has a polciy regarding students accused of a serius crime.

    They will be excluded from the campus.

    How long it takes the student to be reinstated is a matter of how slow the gears grind, not a matter of "rape laws' nor still less, of course, something about 'feminists' wanting the campus to themselves.
     
  14. Spade115

    Spade115 New Member

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    But thats the thing its not really about "feminist" in the sense, Its about the way Rape is handled and viewed. I understand serious crimes have serious consequences however, would that not be due process to handle the matter before exspelling the person for instances where the allegations are false like the case the op stated?
     
  15. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    i believe the policy is to expell any student if they are accused of a serious crime such as assault, robbery, etc.

    The matter of whether the allegations are false is for the police or courts to determine.

    It would not be responsible to allow a student allegedly involved in a serious crime to continue as if nothing had happened until the court has ground thru its process, months later. Talk about a basis for lawsuits, should the perp re offend!

    Due process in this case is for the administration to let the authorities handle campus crime, and expell the alaleged perp in the meantime.

    Where the process seems to have broken down is in the length of time involved in reinstating the student. As we do not know their protocols or what all was involved, whether the length of time was unusual etc, it would not be possible to say if there was anything unusual about this case.


    None of this has anything to do with feminism or rape, as such, but with
    what is a suitable response to any serious crime on campus.
     
  16. Spade115

    Spade115 New Member

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    This is what I was thinking as well, It has nothing to do with Feminism, Just because there are feminist, dosnt mean every allegation torwdes a guy was an attack from a feminist.
     
  17. Nanninga

    Nanninga Member

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    As it was to be expected, feminist trolls try to high jack this topic, trying to diffuse things that happened and the facts. I am not in the mood to discuss with that kind of brainwashed feminists, maybe trained to repeat their nonsense. It's a typical pattern that in cases of proven innocence feminists always try to proclaim the true victim is not the man whose life was ruined, but the women as such as their credibility in rape cases was damaged. So in a slightly changed variation here.

    However, because the article was cited here selectively to diffuse the facts, I will cite some passages that disprove that nonsense:

    In other words the University did not care if he was innocent, until the case got public and the reputation was at stake.

    Secondly, what was made up here, was a pathetic trial to put that case in a context of "(*)(*)(*)(*) happens", that has nothing to do with feminism and the laws, with the standard of proof that is used.
    Of course the gap between the state authorities and the universities' investigation was at least to some parts result of a different procedure. For those who did not follow these topics, here is a short article about it, to make people more immune to a simply move of feminist proganadists to deny the facts:

    Forbes

    I will cite some passages for those unwilling to read the whole article:

    While state prosecutors must prove a crime beyond reasonable doubt, universities are to use the “preponderance of evidence”, some did even before this bill. This awkward trial to pretend that any other crime would be treated with the same standard of proof is ridiculous and of course obviously nonsense.

    This topic was not thought to discuss the question, if there are such feminist lobbies that influence the laws, as it is most ovious and only denied by propagandists. My intention was also not to judge any country of anything, I am neither an American nor part of the generation which has to deal with the consequences. My simple intention was to discuss the question if feminists' influence in the US is stronger than in most European countries. I could imagine such a triumph for feminists only in Sweden or Norway if at all.
     
  18. septimine

    septimine New Member

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    The problem is that rape is given serious consequences, but the standard of proof is stupidly low. Essentially, it's what I would call a j'accuse crime -- if you're accused of it, you're guilty of it. This is patently unfair, as the man has no chance due to the "wiggly" nature of what constitutes a rape. Right now, the working definition is "any sex a woman decides she didn't want". That's not something that you can defend yourself against -- the right to define the crime rests solely with the victim, and since sex in general does not happen in public, it comes down to she said, he said, she's right.

    For something as serious and life-changing as a sex offender charge, I think at minimum, we need a standard definition of the crime, something that a person could at minimum prove did or did not happen. Right now, I think you'd need a breathalizer (to prove that she's not drunk) and a cell phone recording (to prove that she wanted the sex). It's the opposite of how American justice is supposed to work -- it's supposed to work by the accuser proving that the crime took place and that the person that they're accusing did that crime, not by forcing the person who is accused to have pre-emptively collected proof that they are not committing a crime. You don't even solve murders that way -- we collect evidence to show that a dead body is the result of a murder, we use evidence to decide who did the crime, and then prove that that person did that crime.

    I think it's something that actually hurts women's equality (which is different than feminism) because it essentially reinforces the idea that a woman is somehow too weak and childish to live with equal protection. If a guy has drunk sex, he can't claim to have been raped, but a girl can. A girl can decide halfway through sex that she didn't want it, and you just raped her -- could any man get away with that? Either we have the same standards or we don't. And the standards have to make sense and be provable to have happened without the male having to preemptively defend himself by making a video of the girl saying yes. Equal either means equal or it means nothing.

    You can drive a truck through that.
     

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