If you carry a gun are you obligated to put your life in danger to stop a shooting?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Bowerbird, Feb 20, 2013.

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Are you obligated, as a concealed carry weapon holder to try and stop a mass shooting

  1. yes you are obligated even if it puts your and other lives in danger

    2 vote(s)
    4.8%
  2. yes but only if it is your life that is endangered

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  3. yes but only if you can manage without putting your life in danger

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  4. No you have no obligation to shoot back at all

    38 vote(s)
    90.5%
  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Oh! Wow! Such scholarly work in critiquing a paper.......................................NOT!!!!

    Quite frankly if this paper were so bad why did the NRA, following the publication of this and a couple of others suddenly lobby to have, not just firearms injury research defunded but initially the entire CDC defunded?
     
  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sorry old thing but you obviously haven't hung around the science threads to understand how some of these misinformation sites work

    "Cato Institute" sounds pretty solid academic source does it not?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute

    It is a corporate shill. As such I would view any research coming from there as possibly being tainted or biased as I would have to ensure first that there were no corporate interests such as armaments dealers funding the research

    So, the source is suspect - let us look at the author to see whether he may have had some bias

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Kopel

    Hmmmmm - if this were a drug and the ONLY research saying that it was good for you came from a subsidiary of the company with the researcher holding stocks in the company - would you trust it??

    Now let us look at this so called "study" and see what it really is - see if it has been peer reviewed or simply thrown together and stuck up on Cato's website

    So, the only "study" I can find that fits your link is this

    http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/trust-people-case-against-gun-control

    And what we find is that is not a peer reviewed article but an opinion piece and one that is very lacking in scientific rigour. example

    Note how he cites some gun research but then dismisses it without citing supporting data?

    And Oh! WoW! I just traced one of his "Citations" to the reference list he gives

    Since WHEN in any part of academia does a reference list include a bloody personal opinion!!!!

    Primary school children know better than that!!

    Okay - this paper is such a complete and utter fail that I would not trust anything else written by this guy - but thanks for posting it it gave me a good laugh!
     
  3. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    In my opinion, we should lower our tax burden by calling out the unorganized militia of the People who keep and bear Arms in order to end our War on Crime.
     
  4. 2ndaMANdment

    2ndaMANdment New Member

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    Because the way they went about the studies.
     
  5. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    I would love to see the source of this information
     
  6. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    SNIFF SNIFF, LOL do you smell desperation in the air from the anti's ?
     
  7. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    I have always tried to look at things from as many perspectives as I can. I understand the anti-gun complaint. I just don't happen to agree with the cure that is being pandered by the US GOV and national media. It was only approx 2.5 million guns turned in when Australia banned firearms. That was for a population of roughly 33 million. There are still between 550,000-6mil unregistered guns in Australia. That means only 1/3 of the gun owners complied with the demands of the government. Hmmmmmmm. 1/5 or 20% of the country is criminal in violation of the gun seizure acts. That is not accurate, I'm sure, but generally it is correct.
    It doesn't add up. How does this really work?
    There's no one to guard the prisoners cuz just about everyone is behind bars!
    Some of our debators have given excellent, often heated debate. Some, not so much.
    I do wish there was an answer, and there probably is, but I don't think it's taking guns away or become so rigorous with ownership, that it evolves into something that takes on a life of its own.
    Someone in here once said something real smart, educate them about safe driving. The more you know, the safer you are. Same could be used for firearm safety.
    No registration, except for ccw. License the man, not the gun. If he bought it new, it is automatically registered to him. Keep the stiff restrictions on FFL. The fed gov has no Right to determine access to whatever you need to keep you and yours safe. If you don't want it, you don't have to have it. It is that simple. I cannot tell you how to do it. The reverse is true. You cannot tell me how and with what you think I should have.
    Yes, it has been the right day.
     
  8. Spade115

    Spade115 New Member

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    I have a question for you bower.

    What would you do about it? An outright ban? All guns regardless of caliber or types. So what about farmers who have all this land and animals?

    Now Bombs and such are highly illegal in most places, Dosnt mean people cant get them just harder. (2nd Question) How would you get the guns from the criminals?

    Lets say out of 10, 7 are law abiding, You say "Gimme guns" they hand them over, Out of the 3, 1 is a criminal who didnt own a gun, the other two do but dont turn them in and lie, Is it not safe to say the third guy could just buy a gun from one of the other two?
     
  9. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    A well regulated militia of persons specifically connected with militia service is what is specifically enumerated as necessary to the security of a free State.
     
  10. nimdabew

    nimdabew Member

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    Gee, I never thought about it that way before! Thanks Daniel Palos!
     
  11. allislost

    allislost Member

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    You are welcome.......
     
  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    What objection can there be to a well regulated militia acting as a deterrent, by simply mustering and practicing becoming well regulated or to ensuring the domestic tranquility and security of our free States?
     
  13. Pregnar Kraps

    Pregnar Kraps New Member Past Donor

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    I just popped in to remind everyone that our founding fathers didn't actually create our Constitutional rights.

    They recognized we were BORN with certain inalienable rights and they enumerated them as they did so they could be protected and legally defended for our own good and for all time.

    That's all.
     
  14. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    I should be more grateful for the temporal and secular morals and legal ethics Ordained and Established for us, by our Founding Fathers.
     
  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really? See, this is a problem with the gun grabber mentality. They feel they are well versed enough about firearms to have expert opinions yet know nothing of what they say.

    If you knew anything about firearms, you would understand that your understanding about the quotation is about on par with a school child that has never touched a firearm and not someone well versed in them.

    Since you deem yourself on par with a school child in knowledge please explain to us what is incorrect in the quote?
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Okaaaaay - Where do I start??

    When you reference something you HAVE to put a link to research supporting the data. This is because what "everybody knows" often is not true

    There absolutely would be data from the ammunitions manufacturers on how much "pull" each type of gun has and how easy they are to fire and fire accidentally

    The bit about hiding firearms from children is not born out in research

    http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/guns.htm

    But most importantly linking that way to a an unsupported statement IS kindergarten level

    When you reference it is to research or other academic articles and usually research or academic papers that are less than 5 years old not to your "best guess about sum fin huh?"
     
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In other words, you would believe some alleged research over common sense and experience? Typical if it fits your argument. Common knowledge does not apply if you have a paper that says something else. Of course it is easier to hide a long gun than a hand gun, because it is larger and a paper said so. Of course the trigger pull of a revolver is easier than the trigger pull of a rifle, especially since the trigger pull of a revolver is usually around 10 lbs and the trigger pull of a rifle is 4 lbs or less. Makes sense to me. Pulling a slide back on an automatic with a 13 lb spring is so much easier than a 2 lb rifle trigger. Yep, sure make sense any school child would understand.

    As long as you have a paper that tells you what you want to hear, why pay attention to physics and common sense?
     
  18. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    A well regulated militia is what is specifically enumerated as necessary to the security of a free State; why do gun lovers have any problem with that?
     
  19. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    because the second amendment specifically protects the right of the individual to keep and bear arms unconnected with any militia.
     
  20. Krak

    Krak New Member

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    ...the right of the people...
     
  21. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Only a well regulate militia of the People, is specifically enumerated as necessary to the security of a free State.
     
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    which has nothing what so ever to do with the thread
     
  23. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    The militia of the several and United States may be called upon to faithfully execute the laws of the Union or a State.
     
  24. Small Town Guy

    Small Town Guy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please don't feed the trolls.
     
  25. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    What about a posse?
     

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