1.5 million Catalans are marching for independence!what's next?Scotland,w-Sahara, Kur

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by litwin, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    with all due respect to peoples' right to self determination and all, do they have to insist on going as local and small as possible? I don't want to see an independent vlaanderen; it would look ugly border-wise and be rather weak. And most importantly it would be completely ridicolous since they're pretty much dutch! And balkanians, stop whining, stop creating small silly states such as kosovo and just create nation states already! gosh!

    The bigger the country the better in my view, provided that the regional differences are kept of course; wouldn't want a loss in diversity, especially not in languages, which i love. But seeing as the germans, including austrians, for example really are one people, ein volk, there's no good reason for why they shouldn't have an unified foreign policy, military and economic system. Same with vlaanderen and the netherlands in my view. walloonia should join france, but france isn't too good with keeping regional differences alive thouhg. sadly.
     
  2. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    with all due respect to peoples' right to self determination and all, do they have to insist on going as local and small as possible? I don't want to see an independent vlaanderen; it would look ugly border-wise and be rather weak.



    Look ugly? Do you think that countries should have to be formed in pleasing shapes?


    And most importantly it would be completely ridicolous since they're pretty much dutch!


    They speak dutch but they are culturally distinct. They don;t want to be part of the Netherlands and the feeling is mutual

    Force multicultural states again/ That really worked the first time
    Which never happens


    The Austrians don;t want it
    Surely its up to the people themselves what they want -not me and not you.
     
  3. Flemish politician

    Flemish politician New Member

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    Better than ever!
     
  4. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    Doesn't say much. I support Flemish independence but there has been no serious moves at all in the last 10 years. What is stopping it?
     
  5. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    neat borders aren't the highest priority obviously but it's certainly a plus. If horrendous borders can be avoided it preferable should be. Besides, there are concerns about the capabilities do defend a territory with snaky borders; more solid are easier to defend.

    Without knowing too much about it i'd say that the friesians are more distinct yet are part of the dutch nation. Flems are part of the greater dutch, just like swedes and danes are part of the greater scandinavia. for your information I'm positive towards very close co-operation between the scandinavian countries. But sadly they don't want to be part of the netherlands, and that's what's final though. I personally would prefer they join the dutch though.

    I don't want multicultural states, I want homogenous, as much as possible, nation states. What I was referring to was kosovo and albania for example. both are albanian, yet not the same country because?.. I have no idea. different religion or something? I don't know, it's silly. And bosnia; there are nothing called a bosnian, they don't exist. They are just serbs and croats, iirc. And speaking of croats and serbs they're pretty similar too but I guess there's been much dividing in history starting from the catholic-orthodox divide. As much as I'd prefer them to unite into a stronger larger entity I know that the peoples' wills have the final say in it and their opinions about it are formed by conflicts that really shouldn't have taken place.

    Yes it does, language d'Oc (or what it's called) breton etc are certainly on a decline in france aren't they? You can't seriously say that france isn't making france more and more homogenous.

    Sadly no, the austrians don't want it. but seeing as they are germans, i'd want it.
     
  6. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    If horrendous borders can be avoided it preferable should be. Besides, there are concerns about the capabilities do defend a territory with snaky borders; more solid are easier to defend.


    I don;t think an independentFlanders is going to be invaded by anyone
    Thats really up to them. Frankly I wouldn't like to be in Nanny State Netherlands with its ultra multiculturalism. The Flanders movement seem to actually want to stick up for Flemish people

    And yet you haven't declared that you want a return to Sweden ruling over Norway yet.

    Agree they are appalling.

    Actually with the number of Muslims it has let in teh reverse is true

    QUOTE]What I was referring to was kosovo and albania for example. both are albanian, yet not the same country because?
    [/QUOTE]


    because of the Serbs that are in Kosovo. I wouldn't want to be forced into greater albania either
    then you remember wrong. Bosnians are serbo-croat speaking Muslims.

    I think you are referring to Occitan and yes it and breton have been declining for years.
    What does it have to do with you?
     
  7. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    because of the Serbs that are in Kosovo. I wouldn't want to be forced into greater albania either

    then you remember wrong. Bosnians are serbo-croat speaking Muslims.



    I think you are referring to Occitan and yes it and breton have been declining for years.


    What does it have to do with you?[/QUOTE]

    an independent Flanders wouldn't look to shabby compared to other states that is true, nor would it be likely invaded. But I'd still prefer that they'll join the dutch because they are really part of the greater dutch nation. Sure, they can decide if they want independence, that one thing, but they can't decide not to be closely releated to the dutch. That's just a fact; no matter how much sweden want to be a romance country they can't change that they're germanic.

    I actually support multiculturalism in a way; in preserving the cultures that have evolved on a certain place. Not in the way that a foreign culture should be supported outside it's own lands. You know what I mean. But true, true, a multiculti netherlands isn't something one would like to join.

    The time to shape countries into nation states via conquest is long past. Had we invaded and kept norway during the middle ages they'd consider themselves swedes now. But these times, co-operation is the right thing.

    Yeah, that's true.. I was thinking more of the various french cultures, didn't think about the foreign ones. But historically, france has become much more homogenous, both as a result from 'natural' process and an active government policy.

    The serbs aren't in all parts of kosovo? anyways, there's (*)(*)(*)(*) down in the balkans. there is probably no perfect nationalist solution to it i'm afraid.

    ugh, there are soo many things dividing those poor serbs.. first there's the schism in christianity, then there comes muslims and whopdido you've split up one people into three different.. they are a scary example of multiculti in action.

    Indeed they have, and that's what I'm talking about. They are smal parts in a much bigger country, thus they are loosing more and more own their own uniqueness.

    - - - Updated - - -


    because of the Serbs that are in Kosovo. I wouldn't want to be forced into greater albania either

    then you remember wrong. Bosnians are serbo-croat speaking Muslims.



    I think you are referring to Occitan and yes it and breton have been declining for years.


    What does it have to do with you?[/QUOTE]

    an independent Flanders wouldn't look to shabby compared to other states that is true, nor would it be likely invaded. But I'd still prefer that they'll join the dutch because they are really part of the greater dutch nation. Sure, they can decide if they want independence, that one thing, but they can't decide not to be closely releated to the dutch. That's just a fact; no matter how much sweden want to be a romance country they can't change that they're germanic.

    I actually support multiculturalism in a way; in preserving the cultures that have evolved on a certain place. Not in the way that a foreign culture should be supported outside it's own lands. You know what I mean. But true, true, a multiculti netherlands isn't something one would like to join.

    The time to shape countries into nation states via conquest is long past. Had we invaded and kept norway during the middle ages they'd consider themselves swedes now. But these times, co-operation is the right thing.

    Yeah, that's true.. I was thinking more of the various french cultures, didn't think about the foreign ones. But historically, france has become much more homogenous, both as a result from 'natural' process and an active government policy.

    The serbs aren't in all parts of kosovo? anyways, there's (*)(*)(*)(*) down in the balkans. there is probably no perfect nationalist solution to it i'm afraid.

    ugh, there are soo many things dividing those poor serbs.. first there's the schism in christianity, then there comes muslims and whopdido you've split up one people into three different.. they are a scary example of multiculti in action.

    Indeed they have, and that's what I'm talking about. They are smal parts in a much bigger country, thus they are loosing more and more own their own uniqueness.
     
  8. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    can you write a little bit more?
     
  9. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    who want to live under Muslims? Serbs was fighting Muslims for 300 years
     
  10. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    so were the albanians.. til they became muslims also
     
  11. Flemish politician

    Flemish politician New Member

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    Well, it isn't competely true that there where no changes at all, but it's true that it is a slow process. The main reason is that Walloon politicians don't want the country to get split so they are blocking it when they can. Besides that we can see that Flemish politicians who are in the government now are much to soft. The biggest political party in Belgium, Flemish nationalists party N-VA, are not in the federal government but they do what they can from oposition.

    What I wanted to say with "better then ever" is this: more and more people in Flanders see that Belgium doesn't work in the present form and a majority want at least a confederal state. We'll see what the future will bring!
     
  12. Flemish politician

    Flemish politician New Member

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    Frisians (Friezen) have an own language but they all are fluent in Dutch, but you're right that Flemish and Dutch are more related then Frisians/Dutch. For this reason I have no problem with a reunification of north and south and form one state again but this has to go slowly because it's already more then 175 years ago we (Flemish and Dutch) lived in one country. Because of that I first want an independant Flemish state, later a confederation of The Netherlands/Flanders and after that a federal state. I think that's the best solution!

    If you don't want multicultural but homogenous states you should be a great supporter for breaking up Belgium.
     
  13. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    indeed, it might be best to go for independence then unite, of course I agree. I am in support of breaking up belgium; it's just artificial, there's no belgian people to build a state on, but two people. Two people that doesn't even speak a remotely similar language.
     
  14. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    It seems to me that the Walloons have nothing but contempt for Flemish speakers but want to keep them for their money.
     
  15. Sab

    Sab Active Member

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    Remember that The Netherlands and the Flemish part of Belgium were only in one country for a period of 15 years (1815-30) at no other time in History have they been united.
     
  16. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    that's not what it's about though, it's about that they're almost the same people. The same could be said about denmark and sweden which although they have been in a union in the middle ages have never been a single country afaik, yet we're very close.
     
  17. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    do you see a point with EU opposition to Flemish independence ? Germany , France , UK dont want to have a tough concurrent. Greater Netherlands would be a super player not just in EU but in the world politic
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Amoy

    Amoy New Member

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    Northern Kosovo and Republika srpska doesn't deserve independent... RS was created through genocide during 1990s and Northern Kosovo?.... Serbs wiped out almost more than a million out of present day serbia (kosovo excluded) during the 1900's.
     
  19. Amoy

    Amoy New Member

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    Republika Srpska and northern kosovo shouldn't even be allowed to become independent.
     
  20. Amoy

    Amoy New Member

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    Nooo buddy Serbs were not fighting Muslims for 300 years... What Serbs were actually trying to achieve was to ethnically wipe ALL Albanians off the map, they didn't care if the Albanian was a Muslim or not... They just wanted them Albanians all of the map.

    Kosovo war was not about religion but rather a war between two different ethnicities.

    Your Lithuanian?... I'm not surprised... You guys rely a lot on Russian media...Russians being Slavs...
    Who are highly anti-Albanian.

    Not all Albanians are Muslims, in fact they are mixed Muslim and other religions.. They get along prefectly well... Nearly 30% of Albanians are Orthodox Christians and another 10% are catholic... They were the ones who helped kosovo against serbia... So Kosovars are Albanian. So don't EVER refer to kosovo as a religious war.... It's offensive!
     
  21. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    lies made up in Tel Aviv and Hollywood, no one will buy your Zionist- Muslim propaganda here

    - - - Updated - - -

    you are an idiot and cannibal, i m sure you are not for long here
     
  22. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    Andorra is weak, Lichtenstein is weak, San Marino is weak, Nauru , so what is anyone going to war anytime soon? what does it matter to you if Vlaanderen wants to go it alone?


    vlandereen and netherlands are not the same they have different histories that choice is theirs to make and theirs alone, I still retain my Netherlands citizenship but do not reside there... even so I feel I have no say as to whether they join together or not because it no longer effects me...

    next you'll want Canada the USA , NZ and Australia to join together, one common language after all...but I can assure you we are all very different...Germany and Austria, they are not the same people regardless of a common language...
     
  23. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    Indeed, they are weak. So weak that I wouln't say they have any real soveriegnity at all, just part of their biggest nieghbor. Bigger blocks are better than small ones. But, if flems want to diminish their role in the world they should go ahead and get independence.

    No, it's same as with germans and austrians, and danes and swedes.

    I would say that, if they weren't scattered around the globe. If the UK had had all her colonies close by instead of over an ocean I'd see no senseible reason for them to get independence. You'd divide them up just because? Germany already has bavaria which is kinda like austrians already.
     
  24. Amoy

    Amoy New Member

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    Lithuania IS Russia!!!!!
     
  25. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    is it originally a Serbian phrase? [​IMG]

    ps as you know usa is on way out of Balkans

    [video=youtube;ysqYqWdlrNY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysqYqWdlrNY[/video]


    and you bunch of Heroine , Organs businessmen and most brutal PIMPS stay face to face with Serbia , Greece, Macedonians. ha ha ha
     

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