Why can't we discuss UFO's honestly?

tecoyah · Mar 30, 2013

I do not enjoy being called a conspiracy theorist simply because I am curious about something. There are enough compelling evidences to seek further, added to thiss we have a few other unexplainable issue that seem to make this a viable form of research.

It may be a dead end, or pointless research when all is said and done.

But,.....imagine the result if it is not.

Karma Mechanic · Mar 30, 2013

tecoyah said: ↑

I would love to see the data (proof), as this is pretty amazing to me. If you could provide it I would appreciate it, as everything I have seen to debunk it is rather weak.
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look here
http://www.ghosttheory.com/2011/09/22/israeli-news-uncovers-the-jerusalem-ufo-video-hoax

Spiritus Libertatis · Mar 30, 2013

Only 5% of "UFOs" are actually UFOs - as in, they are actually unidentified. Those few true UFOs should be investigated - not because it is necessary, but simply for the record of history, as with any mystery. Most of the stuff the US government keeps secret will never be known by anyone once the evidence is gone and the people involved are all dead - they might as well not have even happened. I hope there is still the chance that somewhere, the explaination for all the various UFOs exists (it likely does), and someone will find it or leak it. I don't think anyone who watched the tapes an testimony of the Phoenix Lights can say they weren't curious about what they were - the question is whether it's possible to find out without getting yourself killed.

tecoyah · Mar 30, 2013

Plausible and compelling ......thank you, I hadn't seen this information. If accurate, I consider the video debunked.

Though I would love to know how they pulled it off.

tecoyah · Mar 30, 2013

Spiritus Libertatis said: ↑

Only 5% of "UFOs" are actually UFOs - as in, they are actually unidentified. Those few true UFOs should be investigated - not because it is necessary, but simply for the record of history, as with any mystery. Most of the stuff the US government keeps secret will never be known by anyone once the evidence is gone and the people involved are all dead - they might as well not have even happened. I hope there is still the chance that somewhere, the explaination for all the various UFOs exists (it likely does), and someone will find it or leak it. I don't think anyone who watched the tapes an testimony of the Phoenix Lights can say they weren't curious about what they were - the question is whether it's possible to find out without getting yourself killed.
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WE, {as in curious humans}....are trying to find out.

Samuel H · Mar 31, 2013

One landmark case is that of the RB-47 UFO encounter

An Air Force RB-47, equipped with electronic countermeasures (ECM) gear and manned by six officers, was followed by an unidentified object for a distance of well over 700 miles, and for a time period of 1.5 hr., as it flew from Mississippi, through Louisiana and Texas and into Oklahoma.

The object was, at various times, seen visually by the cockpit crew as an intensely luminous light, followed by ground-radar and detected on ECM monitoring gear aboard the RB-47.

Of special interest in this case are several instances of simultaneous appearances and disappearances on all three of those physically distinct "channels," and rapidity of maneuvers beyond the prior experience of the aircrew.

Introduction
In the early morning hours of July 17, 1957, an RB-47 was flying out of Forbes Air Force Base, Topeka, Kansas, on a composite mission that included gunnery exercises over the Texas-Gulf area, navigation exercises over the open Gulf, and finally ECM exercises scheduled for the return trip across the south-central United States. The RB-47 was carrying a sixman crew, of whom three were electronic warfare officers manning ECM gear in the aft portion of the aircraft. Their names are as follows: Lewis D. Chase, pilot; James H. McCoid, copilot; Thomas H. Hanley, navigator; John J. Provenzano, No. 1 monitor; Frank B. McClure, No. 2 monitor; Walter A. Tuchscherer. No. 3 monitor...
http://www.ufocasebook.com/rb47.html
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[video=youtube;TaBBA3gkZTc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaBBA3gkZTc[/video]

[video=youtube;ttebNxI0v_8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttebNxI0v_8[/video]

monty1 · Mar 31, 2013

Agent Zero said: ↑

This is what I'm talking about. Some people dismiss it immediately without actually taking the time to discuss it, or to even explain why they think it's nonsense.
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Well they're fools and they won't be invited to the party with the martians and the moon men. Discuss it amongst yourselves and you will become even more enlightened on the truth you tell each other. Maybe even hustle up a few aliens or two for proof. Have faith, they are coming. Look at how it's working out for the kristyuns. They know he's coming! Soon, you betcha, just aks me!

monty1 · Mar 31, 2013

Samuel H said: ↑

One landmark case is that of the RB-47 UFO encounter

[video=youtube;TaBBA3gkZTc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaBBA3gkZTc[/video]

[video=youtube;ttebNxI0v_8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttebNxI0v_8[/video]
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That's not the best evidence by far. I had a martian come to my house and sit down for dinner. We fed him the neighbour's cat, for which favour they're still hallerin at us. Let's talk about it. You'll see that 'they' are willing to talk about UFO's!

tecoyah · Mar 31, 2013

Why can't we discuss UFO's honestly?

monty1 said: ↑

That's not the best evidence by far. I had a martian come to my house and sit down for dinner. We fed him the neighbour's cat, for which favour they're still hallerin at us. Let's talk about it. You'll see that 'they' are willing to talk about UFO's!
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That is why.

Samuel H · Mar 31, 2013

... But the warrant officer did do something. He called to the F-84 pilot he had on combat air patrol west of the base and told him to get ready for an intercept. He brought the pilot around south of the base and gave him a course correction thai would take him riglit into the light. which was still at 16.000 feet. By this time the pilot had it spotted. He made the turn, and when he closed to within about 3 miles of the target, it began to move. The controller saw it begin to move, the spotter saw it begin to move and the pilot saw it begin to move - all at the same time There was now no doubt that all of them were watching the same object.

Once it began to move, the UFO picked up speed fast and started to climb, heading north, but the F-84 was right on its tail. The pilot would notice that the light was getting brighter, and he'd call the controller to tell him about it. But the controller's answer would always be the same, "Roger, we can see it on the scope."

There was always a limit as to how near the jet could get, however. The controller told me that it was just as if the UFO had some kind of an automatic warning radar linked to its power supply. When something got too close to it, it would automatically pick up speed and pull away. The separation distance always remained about 3 miles.

The chase continued on north out of sight of the lights of Rapid Cty and the base - into some very black night...
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http://www.ufocasebook.com/ellsworth.html

Samuel H · Mar 31, 2013

Captain Edward J. Ruppelt - Former head of Project Bluebook

In the summer of 1952 a United States Air Force F-86 jet interceptor shot at a flying saucer.

This fact, like so many others that make up the full flying saucer story has never before been told.

I know the full story about flying saucers and I know that it has never before been told because I organized and was chief of the Air Force Project Blue Book, the special project set up to investigate and analyze unidentified flying object, or UFO reports. (UFO is the official term that I created to replace the words 'flying saucers." ... [His entire book can be read online for free at the link below]
http://www.nicap.org/rufo/contents.htm
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July 17, 1923 - September 15, 1960 (aged 37)

Service/branch
United States Air Force

Years of service
World War II - mid-1950s

Rank
Captain

Battles/wars
World War II

Awards
Five battle stars
Two theater combat ribbons
Three Air Medals
Two Distinguished Flying Crosses

Other work
Research engineer for Northrop Aircraft Company

Samuel H · Apr 1, 2013

For readers who may not have seen the ongoing list, here are a series of landmark UFO cases and/or related testimony. If you have a serious interest in this subject or would like to have some idea why people get so worked up about this, a careful review of the information from the previous posts, linked below, constitutes a practical though basic introduction to the real subject of UFOs, whatever they may be. I am not arguing for any particular explanation. My interest is to consider the most compelling cases and to show that this is not a trivial matter - a lot of very serious people take this matter very seriously. And many of the most credible cases involve the USAF, or some other branch of the military or intelligence community. We also have seasoned commercial airline pilots in the mix. I will continue to add links to landmark cases to the extent that the moderators allow, or until I exhaust my list of particularly interesting or credible events or links.

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-25.html#post1062385101
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-27.html#post1062414572
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-27.html#post1062418648
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-27.html#post1062429722
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-28.html#post1062430008
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-28.html#post1062430014
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-29.html#post1062433006
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-30.html#post1062440583
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-30.html#post1062440749
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-30.html#post1062444913
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-30.html#post1062454259
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-31.html#post1062455334
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-31.html#post1062457423
http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-discuss-ufos-honestly-32.html#post1062457469

Samuel H · Apr 1, 2013

This is the story of extraordinary events that happened in 1967 to US Air Force Strategic Air Command Missile Combat Officers and other enlisted personnel; Missileers assigned to operate, maintain, and protect the Minuteman Intercontinental Ballistic Missile , an essential part of America's Cold War strategic nuclear deterrent.

...However, now other missiles started to go off alert in rapid succession! Within seconds, the entire flight of ten ICBMs was down! All of their missiles reported a "No-Go" condition. One by one across the board, each missile had became inoperable. When the checklist procedure had been completed for each missile site, it was discovered that each of the missiles had gone off alert status due to a Guidance and Control (G&C) System fault. Power had not been lost to the sites; the missiles simply were not operational because, for some unexplainable reason, each of their guidance and control systems had malfunctioned.

Two Security Alert Teams (SAT, "strike teams") were dispatched from Echo to those sites where the maintenance crews were present. Figel had not informed the strike teams that one of the on- site guards had reported a UFO. On arrival at the LFs, the SAT reported back to that UFOs had been seen hovering over each of the two sites by all of the maintenance and security personnel present at each site...
http://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/malm1.htm
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[video=youtube;4F08xJwA2qI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F08xJwA2qI[/video]

Samuel H · Apr 2, 2013

... Sergeant Toby Meloro was the first officer on the scene, as he proceeded down Samson Drive to check out the lights. He was informed by a man on the street that the lights were moving south.

As Meloro continued southerly on Samson Drive, suddenly his cruiser went dead. As he attempted to restart his vehicle, it was engulfed by a bright light from above.

Startled and frightened, he exited his vehicle, and stood outside looking up at a giant object, circular in shape, and intensely bright in the center section...
http://www.ufocasebook.com/trumbullcounty1994.html
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Part 1
[video=youtube;h39hzsbDzD8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h39hzsbDzD8[/video]

Part 2
[video=youtube;_4j_IXubcoU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4j_IXubcoU&mode=related&search=[/video]

Samuel H · Apr 3, 2013

One notable case is the Portage County chase, which involved a number of police units. This case was used as a model for the police chase scene in the movie, Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

Ordered by the sergeant to pursue the object, they chased it for eighty-five miles across the border into Pennsylvania, as it seemed to play a cat-and-mouse game with them. Along the route, police officers from other jurisdictions saw the object and joined in the chase.

Deputy Sheriff Dale Spaur and Mounted Deputy Wilbur 'Barney Neff had left their scout car to investigate an apparently abandoned automobile on Route 224. Spaur described the sighting in these words:

I always look behind me so no one can come up behind me. And when I looked in this wooded area behind us, I saw this thing. At this time it was coming up... to about tree top level. I'd say about one hundred feet. It started moving toward us...

As it came over the trees, I looked at Barney and he was still watching the car... and he didn't say nothing and the thing kept getting brighter and the area started to get light... I told him to look over his shoulder, and he did.

"He just stood there with his mouth open for a minute, as bright as it was, and he looked down. And I started looking down and I looked at my hands and my clothes weren't burning or anything, when it stopped right over on top of us.

The only thing, the only sound in the whole area was a hum... like a transformer being loaded or an overloaded transformer when it changes...

"I was petrified, and, uh, so I moved my right foot, and everything seemed to work all right. And evidently he made the same decision I did, to get something between me and it, or us and it, or whatever you would say. So we both went for the car, we got in the car and we sat there..."

As they watched, the UFO moved toward the east, and then stopped again. Spaur picked up the microphone and reported to the dispatcher. At this time, the object was about 250 feet away, brilliantly lighting up the area ("It was very bright; it'd make your eyes water," Spaur said.)

Sergeant Schoenfelt, off duty at the station, told them to follow it and keep it under observation while they tried to get a photo unit to the scene.

Spear and Neff turned south on Route 183, then back east on Route 224, which placed the object to their right, and out the left window.

At this time, said Spaur, "it came straight south, just one motion, buddy, just a smooth glide... and began moving east with them pacing it, just to their right at an estimated altitude of 300-500 feet, illuminating the ground beneath it. Once more the UFO darted to the north, now left of the car, and they sped up to over 100 mph to keep pace with it." ...
http://www.ufocasebook.com/portage.html
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[video=youtube;mqxqEHENtgQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mqxqEHENtgQ#![/video]

Jango · Apr 3, 2013

So pretty much, for a lot of people I am presuming, this kind of stuff is an open-secret that the government hardly ever talks about even though it is legitimate.

Childs: I just cannot believe any of this voodoo bullsh*t.
Palmer: Childs, it happens all the time, man. They're falling out of the sky like flies. Government knows all about it, right, Mac?
Childs: You believe any of this voodoo bullsh*t, Blair?
Palmer: Childs, Childs. Chariots of the Gods, man. They practically own South America. I mean, they taught the Incas everything they know.

Samuel H · Apr 3, 2013

Jango said: ↑

So pretty much, for a lot of people I am presuming, this kind of stuff is an open-secret that the government hardly ever talks about even though it is legitimate.
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It is easily shown that one of the best sources of information on this subject is the Government. And some of the biggest proponents of this subject are current and former military, intelligence, political, and aviation officials.

There are plenty of scientists in the mix as well. J. Allen Hynek is widely considered to be "father" of "ufology". He was contracted by the government to investigate UFOs under the USAF's projects Sign, Grudge, and Bluebook. A stanch debunker at first and the inventor of the infamous "swamp gas" explanation for UFOs, he eventually became a devout believer as a result of what he considered to be the overwhelming evidence at hand.

He acted as an advisor to Steven Spielberg for the making of Close Encounters of the Third Kind and made a cameo appearance in that film. He also invented the language and definitions [first kind, second kind, third kind] to describe encounters with UFOs.

Hynek was born in Chicago to Czech parents. In 1931, Hynek received a B.S. from the University of Chicago. In 1935, he completed his Ph.D. in astrophysics at Yerkes Observatory. He joined the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Ohio State University in 1936. He specialized in the study of stellar evolution and in the identification of spectroscopic binaries.

During World War II, Hynek was a civilian scientist at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory, where he helped to develop the United States Navy's radio proximity fuze.

After the war, Hynek returned to the Department of Physics and Astronomy at Ohio State, rising to full professor in 1950.

In 1956, he left to join Professor Fred Whipple, the Harvard astronomer, at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, which had combined with the Harvard Observatory at Harvard. Hynek had the assignment of directing the tracking of an American space satellite, a project for the International Geophysical Year in 1956 and thereafter. In addition to over 200 teams of amateur scientists around the world that were part of Operation Moonwatch, there were also 12 photographic Baker-Nunn stations. A special camera was devised for the task and a prototype was built and tested and then stripped apart again when, on Oct. 4, 1957, the Soviet Union launched its first satellite, Sputnik.

After completing his work on the satellite program, Hynek went back to teaching, taking the position of professor and chairman of the astronomy department at Northwestern University in 1960.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Allen_Hynek
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[video=youtube;6Je3vlCAltI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Je3vlCAltI[/video]

[video=youtube;pyDVR2B14dw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyDVR2B14dw[/video]

[video=youtube;iTDqEnZr2Ms]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTDqEnZr2Ms[/video]

FreshAir · Apr 3, 2013

My Fing ID said: ↑

I highly doubt aliens have visited us, though I don't doubt their existence. I think a lot of them are just misidentified everyday aircraft.
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recently I would agree, but there are some signs in our history that maybe we were visited in the past and that our ancestors thought of them as Gods from the sky

monty1 · Apr 3, 2013

FreshAir said: ↑

recently I would agree, but there are some signs in our history that maybe we were visited in the past and that our ancestors thought of them as Gods from the sky
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No, there are no signs in our history. Not a single one but there have always been people who saw something completely explainable with logical thought and turned it into something supernatural. All religions are examples and they are the best examples. We don't need to rely on weak reports of space men and martians.

Just take an example of the supposed supernatural from even a hundred years ago and analyze it to see how ridiculous it is with today's understanding. And again, the best examples are religous beliefs that have been modified and adjusted in an attempt to suit modern thinking. In another hundred years we'll be looking back and seeing even more ridiculous examples simply because sicence has progressed much more quickly.

The best feature of this thread is that we can look at the silly theories of UFO's and extraterrestrials and see how some people are so quickly accepting of the theories. Then we can look closely at those same people in other threads and find the same sort of behaviour being demonstrated. A general willingness to accept nearly anything that flies in the face of facts and reality.

Margot · Apr 3, 2013

Agent.. you should know that my eldest son is the new messiah of the anunnaki. LOLOL

Samuel H · Apr 3, 2013

monty1 said: ↑

No, there are no signs in our history. Not a single one but there have always been people who saw something completely explainable with logical thought and turned it into something supernatural. All religions are examples and they are the best examples. We don't need to rely on weak reports of space men and martians.

Just take an example of the supposed supernatural from even a hundred years ago and analyze it to see how ridiculous it is with today's understanding. And again, the best examples are religous beliefs that have been modified and adjusted in an attempt to suit modern thinking. In another hundred years we'll be looking back and seeing even more ridiculous examples simply because sicence has progressed much more quickly.

The best feature of this thread is that we can look at the silly theories of UFO's and extraterrestrials and see how some people are so quickly accepting of the theories. Then we can look closely at those same people in other threads and find the same sort of behaviour being demonstrated. A general willingness to accept nearly anything that flies in the face of facts and reality.
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It is interesting that you ignore the pages of information that I've presented so far and instead attack invisible people. How about if you respond to me and the evidence I've presented?

Do you conclude that all of the people involved in these alleged events are cranks? If so, on what basis?

Samuel H · Apr 3, 2013

Another big name in the world of UFOs is Dr. Peter Sturrock. Here is an interview with Dr. Sturrock from 1998, from All Things Considered, on NPR.

The Truth Is Out There
June 29, 199812:00 AM

Noah talks with Peter Sturrock, Professor of Applied Physics at Stanford University. Professor Sturrock recently assembled a panel of scientists to review data from a collection of UFO sightings. This panel made the first independent review of UFO sightings since 1970 and concluded that a collection of alleged UFO sightings merit additional scientific study. Professor Sturrock believes that a lack of institutional support hinders the study of UFOs.
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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1034787

Listen
http://www.npr.org/templates/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=ATC&showDate=29-Jun-1998&segNum=15&NPRMediaPref=RAM

Peter Sturrock
EMERITUS PROFESSOR OF APPLIED PHYSICS
B.A., Cambridge University, 1945
M.S., Cambridge University, 1948
Ph.D., Cambridge University, 1951
Radar Research Establishment, 1943-1946
St. John's College and Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge, England, 1946-1949
National Bureau of Standards, 1949-1950
Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique Fellow, University of Paris, 1950-1951
Atomic Energy Research Establishment, Harwell, 1951-1953
Fellow, St. Johns College Cambridge, 1952-1955
Research Associate, Microwave Laboratory, Stanford Univeristy, 1955-61
Ford Fellow, European Organization for Nuclear Research, Geneva, Switzerland, 1958-1959
Professor of Space Science and Astrophysics, 1961-present
Director, Institute for Plasma Research, Stanford, 1964-1974, 1980-1983
Deputy Director, Center for Space Science and Astrophysics, 1983-1999
Fellow, American Association for the Advancement of Science
Fellow, American Physical Society
Fellow, Royal Astronomical Society
President, Society for Scientific Exploration, 1981-2001
Rayleigh Prize, Cambridge University, 1949
Gravity Foundation Prize, 1967
Hale Prize, American Astronomical Society, 1986
Arctowski Medal, National Academy of Sciences, 1990
Space Science Award, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, 1993
Peter's current research interests center on solar physics and Bayesian methods of data analysis
http://www.stanford.edu/group/Sturrock/Peter/

monty1 · Apr 3, 2013

Samuel H said: ↑

It is interesting that you ignore the pages of information that I've presented so far and instead attack invisible people. How about if you respond to me and the evidence I've presented?

Do you conclude that all of the people involved in these alleged events are cranks? If so, on what basis?
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Just give us 'one' piece of your information and we'll tear it to shreds for you. How about some religious crap because that's by far the most credible. We'll destroy that in a minute!

Colonel K · Apr 3, 2013

A UFO is exactly that, something somebody saw in the sky, and they didn't know what it was. That doesn't mean it was an alien spaceship, just that they didn't know. As with creationism not knowing how we got here doesn't mean God did it, not knowing what was seen doesn't mean it was the greys visiting.

monty1 · Apr 3, 2013

Colonel K said: ↑

A UFO is exactly that, something somebody saw in the sky, and they didn't know what it was. That doesn't mean it was an alien spaceship, just that they didn't know. As with creationism not knowing how we got here doesn't mean God did it, not knowing what was seen doesn't mean it was the greys visiting.
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Yeah right, but these crackpots want to take it one more step and that's where they get their reputations. Nobody doubts what you say and you can talk about that until the cows come home just as long as you don't start turning frisbees into flying saucers with maritians in them.

So I say, let em have a crack at it. Give us one instance that hasn't either been explained or one that has panned out to be proven extraterrestials. There isn't a damn one in existence!

But how can we prove that to people who believe in gods and sky fairies like jesus and other imaginary space junk.

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