Educational reforms to Prevent People from Becoming Criminals and Low-Wage Earners

Discussion in 'Education' started by DeskFan, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. DeskFan

    DeskFan New Member

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    There are over 2.3 million adults in prison and over 7.5 million in prison, on parole, or on probation. That number is always increasing and does not include teens, individuals who got off probation, and individuals who never got caught committing crimes. Virtually all of these individuals in the system, reformed criminals, and criminals in America went through our "public education" system. The US average household income is $50,000, the majority of people work for around $5-$10 over the minimum wage their entire life. Virtually all of these people also have gone through public education. I have a two point plan which focuses on how to make education better for every single person who passes through it, it prevents people from becoming criminals, makes people pursue higher education, and I believe it will fix many of the problems in America in due time.

    1. Implement a 5th core class
    I propose to improve the educational system by implementing a 5th core class, lets call it “Class XYZ” for now. Many teenagers develop their identity during high school. High school is a time of individual construction and development. Our current K-12 public education system teaches four core classes: science, history, math, and English. Although each subject is important, “Class XYZ” would be an equally important core class. These current core classes do not build character, teach life skills, teach logic, and set you up for success. In this class students would learn four things: they would learn the importance of education, they would learn how to think and act logically, they would learn the significance of their role in the community, and they would learn how to be successful.

    Here is a breakdown of the four goals of the class:
    1. Teenagers would learn why education is important because by better understanding the correlation between doing well in school and their future net worth and career they would do better in school. They would be inclined to pursue higher education.
    2. They would learn to think logically, make logical decisions, and to not succumb to the influence of human emotions which can cause an individual to act and think illogically.
    3. This class would teach students that they are a part of the community and that their actions affect the community. People think their life is secluded from the community when they are actually a part of it. A more community conscience mentality would make them a better citizen, and if more individuals thought like that, it would unify our community. They would also be taught about the negative impacts caused by things such as drugs and gangs on the community.
    4. Telling students that they can succeed would empower them to succeed. Showing them that people that were in a similar position to them became millionaire and billionaires would empower them. it would also teach students life skills such as having priorities and goals to help students reach success. Although a direct path to success does not exist, showing students examples of people who became successful and letting them know that they could do the same will motivate and encourage students to do the same.

    2. Implement a Monetary Incentive System
    I actually wrote an essay on the topic of educational reforms which focused on the benefits of the Monetary incentive program.

    Here is the introduction of it:
    We have a crisis on our hands. There is poverty, crime, drugs, and ignorance running rampant throughout our nation. I believe that education is the key to improving our society and making it as close to a utopia as possible. Picture the recent BP oil spill. Oil is leaking into the ocean and to solve the problem you can’t just keep collecting oil from the ocean; you have to solve the problem at its roots. A report on graduation rates conducted by the EPE Research Center and the America Promise Alliance stated that “Only about one-half (52 percent) of students in the principal school systems of the 50 largest cities complete high school with a diploma.” The report stated that 3 out of 10 public high school students throughout the nation do not graduate high school. Your childhood and your teenage years essentially create who you will become later on in life. Public education can significantly influence the direction of your life. Giving students a monetary incentive for getting good grades would cause them to do better in high school.

    Here is a link to DL the full document:
    Educational Reform - Benefits of a Monetary Incentive Program

    Here is a link to view the full document online:
    http://pastebin.com/hkc6DtRX


    Do you think that these will fix our problems? with some or many revisions? What is your take on solving the problem of people becoming criminals and gangsters, people committing crimes, gangs, poverty, and low wages in America?

    Barack Obama would not have become president of the United States if he was arrested and imprisoned as a youth for possession of cocaine and various other drugs. We need to stop incarcerating people and focus on the root cause of our problems.
     
  2. PRAIRIEOUTLAW

    PRAIRIEOUTLAW Member

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    Ok, speaking from a teaching point of view I think I can speak for many people on this topic that deal with students every day.
    First off, I agree that there is a link between uneducated people and the number of people in prison. In fact there is a study out that shows that around 80% of criminals in prison are uneducated. So there is definately a problem.
    What to do about the problem is the million dollar question.
    After reading your post I noticed you said that normal classes don't teach student about character, life skills, and core values... I would say that is incorrect. All of the rules that schools have historically had were in place to teach students those very things. Do you homework, be on time, study for a test, etc... etc... Those things are not simply to "make students work"... They are meant to build character of doing the right thing even if you dont "want to".
    With that being said, it is amazing how school rules have changed over the last 15 years. I can remember when I was a high school student; if you didn't do your work, you got a zero.... Today, most schools have rules against giving students zeros, or even any grade below a 50 no matter what. Now that my friend, is cutting the throat of character building and the such. There are tons of other examples but I don't want to write a book so I'll move on.
    As for the Monetary system.... this is a thought, but I have to ask... Where does the money come from, and how does it build character? Do we not want students to "do the right thing" because it is "simply the right thing to do" not because they are getting paid? Also, why is it not enough to see that getting good grades does "open the doors" to better oppertunities in the future?
    I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers, but the first thing that needs to happen is to make the students and thier parents responsible for thier education. Teachers are USUALLY doing thier jobs for the right reason and MOST do truely care about the students. Proof of that is in thier pay....
     
  3. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    50 is failing. I used to teach. My first year of teaching, I was more idealistic than pragmatic. In teaching 9th grade physical science, I actually gave 0s on assignments, etc. I never did that again. Why? Well, a student in 6 weeks can get to a point where it is impossible numerically to pass a semester. They still have 12 weeks left in the semester. I had several students with 20-30averages. They gave up on my class totally. Why work if it's impossible to pass? What do you think they did when they were stuck in my class, and had no reason to do work? They did absolutely nothing but disrupt my class. After that, for practical reasons I never gave below a 50 on a preliminary grade report (i.e. before the end of a semester). Why? 50 was failing, but if the kid worked their butt off, they could still pass with a 70 (70 was passing in this system). Now, if I had taught in a school with 60 passing, 40 would have been my cutoff. The 50 cutoff is pragmatic. It is necessary to keep from having students totally give up.
     
  4. DeskFan

    DeskFan New Member

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    I am speaking from a students point of view. A student who had poor grades during high school, who was expelled from school twice, who hung around with the type of people that are included in the 7.5 million statistic I gave you, who was incarcerated in juvenile hall for a few months, who was on juvenile probation for 3 years, and who got on juvenile probation when I turned 15 for having a illicit weapon. I currently am 20 years old and am in college pursuing a B.S. in electrical engineering. I get nothing less then a 4.0 every semester even when taking over 18 units. In addition to my learning of engineering, I take may business and programming classes. I am very confident that I can invent and design a consumer electronic product, bring it to market, and become a multi-millionaire by doing so. I have a unique perspective on things. By analyzing myself as a teenager, my observations on the creation of criminals and low-wage earners, and by analyzing the many people who I knew and observed as a teenager who are the type of people that are included in the 7.5 million statistic I gave you, I have come up with a few ideas for educational reforms which I believe would be extremely effective at preventing people from becoming criminals and low wage earners. I have friends in prison; Why am I not in prison? It is because there are things about life and the world to which I have learned. If I would have learned these things as a middle and high school student I would have never made the decisions I made I made and would have never gotten bad grades.

    With a rate of three out of ten students not graduating high school, with 7.5 million people on probation, parole, and in prison, and with 55% of the US having a household income of under $50,000, according to US Census Bureau, that method you mentioned is not working.

    It would make students have an immediate reward from scholastic success. They would more clearly see the benefits to succeeding in school which would enable them to do well in it. The monetary part of the plan is to ensure that people graduate high school and make them want to go to college. This monetary incentive would be paid for by taxes. In due time the system would be paid for by the additional revenue that US would make from students achieving a higher salary due to the monetary incentives. Just because a person cares about the well-being someone or something it doesn't mean that they can take adequate care of it. For example a little girl might love her puppy, but if she is left to care for it by herself the puppy could die because she might not adequately feed it or give it water. I believe that many parents and teachers are like this little girl.
     
  5. PRAIRIEOUTLAW

    PRAIRIEOUTLAW Member

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    Ok not trying to be disrespectful or calling you a lie, but there seems to be a disconnect with how you could have been in all that trouble, been a teacher, in college to be an engineer and only 20 years old.
    I totally understand the reasoning behind the 50 grading system, but IF there is no consequence for not doing what is expected then YES people do choose to do whatever they can get away with.
    Basically our school system isn't the true cause of students not getting an education... It goes back to what the students want.
    I was a student not so long ago too. I came from a family that didn't really care about education. In fact, my mother couldn't read very well herself. That didn't stop me from graduating. I didn't graduate at the top of my class actually more like in the bottom 1/4th of the 180 studnets in our class... Not because I didn't have the ability, but because I didn't have the desire.... Now with that being said I DID graduate TOP of my class in college and won numerous awards such as Highest Honors Graduate, Outstanding Graduate, Most likely to Succeed, and Student Teacher of the Year.
    What changed??? I actually started caring about my education and wanted to prove that I was able to make better grades than anyone else if I wanted to.

    As for students getting jobs that are higher paid, its amazing how so many young people feel like money is the only reason they are supposed to work, and its a slap in thier face if they don't start out as a multi millionaire.
    My father once said that the only job you start out on the top is digging a well.
    Its ok to not be the highest paid person in the world. I had a student today ask me why I was a teacher when I could be working in the Engineering field making way more money... My reply... because I love my job....

    I don't doubt that there needs to be more classes that teach students about "wise" choices... I actually teach STEM "Science Technology Engineering and Mathematics" and thankfully part of our cirruculum allows for me to teach this along with helping students decide what to take in high school to get them ready for the future.
    In the past I have taught Agricultural education and advised students in FFA and let me tell you THAT is what students need to become involved in. An extracurricular activity.


    The ultimate goal needs to be not to offer students money, but to get the families and community involved with the students education. That would make for a much better outcome.
     
  6. DeskFan

    DeskFan New Member

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    I am not a teacher, I have never been a teacher, and I never have said I was ever a teacher. Can you please tell me from where in my posts you have gotten that information from?

    You are not aware of many things in our society. Our society is filled with drugs, gangs, stupidity, and low-wage earners. We need a real solution that can bring real positive change now.
     
  7. PRAIRIEOUTLAW

    PRAIRIEOUTLAW Member

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    My bad I do see where that was another poster that said that... My appologies.. I didn't realize someone else was posting. I stand corrected on that. I can admit when I am wrong....

    As for being aware of things going on in our society, I beg the difference on that... I do know that there are things going on in our society.. I see it every day. With that said, I dont disagree that things need to be done but I don't necessarly agree with the ones you suggested.

    There is no doubt, not a single parent out there doesn't hope thier child will become a doctor, or lawer, or some other high paid profession... Thats normal. But what everyone needs to realize is we still have to have the average run of the mill person that is OK with doing a job and getting a paycheck. Honest days work/ honest days pay... Otherwise who picks up the garbage? Who works on your vehicles? Who teaches your children? Not all people are TRUELY going to be High wage earners... That is just not possible in any society.
    That doesn't mean that parents and teachers alike don't push children to become thier full potential... That is not what I'm saying, but there are some people that just don't want that.

    How exactly would getting families and the community involved in students education not be a good thing??? How would the students getting involved in an extracurricular activity not be a good thing? How would a teacher working with students to make wise choices prove that they are not aware of the things in our society???
    I'm all for doing whatever works, but honestly I have to actually THINK its going to make a difference before I can become commited to doing something...
    Students and parents alike will have to actually WANT to change.... Otherwise, myself and the remaining army of teachers are fighting a loosing battle. That doesn't mean we give up, but its for sure a loosing battle.
     
  8. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    In some cases its not all the students fault you can have a decent child but maybe they don't do well in book learning sorts of settings or find what they are learning not useful. Look at it from a poor childs and parents point of view their son ,say John, is kind of average and won't likely go on to school due to the costs and needs to work. They see the classes and will this class say American Literature get me a job if not then what good is it?

    For these students maybe two years of general education then two years of strong vocational classes leading to a diploma and job certification might be better say leave school with a certificate and license as a barber. Or orient this for an apprenticeship in a trade or at least leave with strong skills to work in retail or some other areas a general education.

    Then some students are not good in school my fiance years ago dropped out but learned hands on she could rebuild and refinish motorcycles, do many hands on fix it jobs and was a good machinist and welder but learned this by doing and in apprenticeship. But she has major issues in school she could use math if it applied to a task she was trained in though.

    Society needs to adapt to the student not the other way around many will do well in school but for some a more practical skills to a job approach would be better especially with cost of going on to school being prohibitive.
     
  9. PRAIRIEOUTLAW

    PRAIRIEOUTLAW Member

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    Exactly true... That is why historically schools have provided ALOT of oppertunities for its students to partake in vocational classes and I have always been a strong supporter of such classes. In fact, I have always been considered a vocational teacher throughout the years I have taught. Previously, I taught Agricultural Education classes as well as Construction Technology classes and now Science Technology Engineering and Mathematics (STEM).... I have preached the exact same thing you are saying about students connecting what they learn in school to what they will actually use in the real world.
    Problem is... this is going to the wayside, because of mandated state tests and society pushing students to only seek jobs that require college.

    My arguement with the other poster was simply to state that schools do try to teach responsibility, morals, and others things that produce good citizens, but the only way some teachers, say a trigonometry teacher, has to do that is by making requirements that students be on time, do thier own work, etc. etc, and then show them that hard work does pay off...
     
  10. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't parents teach those things however a good civics and ethics class plus a general religion class about different religions and systems of belief as an academic class might be good. To many people don't know about how to make decisions and how other people believe and the class in religion could include atheism and other non-faith systems. And I would add a semester of life mathematics I had a class like that in HS that was remedial but I learned (and I mean we had to mimic the whole process in most cases including going to respectice businesses):

    How to buy a house and mortgages (yes I had to go buy a house as if I made a base line income).

    How to buy a car (ditto).

    How to handle credit and credit cards.

    How to do bookkeeping for the household and small business.

    Taxes and this means I had to see an IRS agent and get a review of the paperwork.

    etc.

    And I mean the process buying a house I had to go to an open house, do the paperwork, the financing at a bank and close it with all of the work done.

    Best class I ever had in school!

    If people had to take these three classes it would be ideal regardless of what you do as an adult. How many people in the mortgage bubble would have been there if they understood credit and paying the debt off like I learned?
     
  11. PRAIRIEOUTLAW

    PRAIRIEOUTLAW Member

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    All classes are Supposed to teach its students those skills in a round about way... or at least relate the skills learned to those things...
    As for a class that teaches that every state is different, but I actually do the exact thing that you are talking about in my class because I feel it is a skill that students NEED. I teach STEM (science technology engineering and mathematics) which is a vocational class, or at least its funded that way.
    You would be amazed at how many 9th grade students don't know how much a gallon of gasoline costs, or that they can't buy a 15 million dollar house on a nurses salary....
    I actually make my lesson on it a big project.
    I allow students to draw from a group of jobs from the career clusters that we discuss earlier. The draw that they choose will assign them things such as credit card debt, student loan debt, dependent children, and other things that are usual etc....
    They choose if they want to be with a partner (married or not) and must take on that persons debt/obligations as well...
    Students have to find a job from online sources, figure and pay thier federal and state taxes, (Huge shocker for most), buy a house, car, balance a budget based on thier income and choices etc etc... I even get them to figure out how much gas they will need based on the house they choose and where thier job is and the car they choose (MPG)...
    Its one of those things they don't always like, but when they finish it thier responses are usually... WOW I didn't know mama and daddy had to do all of that, or WOW! I didn't realize it cost so much to just live...

    Problem is... alot of the restrictions we are putting on teachers today takes away the ability of MOST teachers to do things like that because of those dreaded "tests" and the pressure to perform well on them.
    As I have always said, the ability of a child to choose the correct letter between A, B, C, and D is not a true reflection of his/her ability.
    A quote I used to tell students when they would say they were stupid was... "If we judge a goldfish by his ability to climb a tree, he will always feel like an idiot"... The kids loved that saying, and it usually got the desired effect.
     
  12. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Nothing will stop a criminal from becoming a criminal. NOTHING.

    The US pubic education system tries to make itself out to be more than it is. In fact it fails at everything in every regard, and yet pubic school educators think they can shape a kids future for the better. Fact is they do more harm than good.

    You want less criminals and more higher wage workers? Send your kids to forigen countries. The developed ones like some of the asian or EU countries for a grade school education. There, they will be more advanced beyond their age group. They will have the ability to speak 2 to 4 languages, and the ability to work for higher wages in forigen countries. In addition, they will not be spoiled and more independent, with a solid work ethic.

    Forget US colleges and universities. They are for clowns that want to pay money. The US University industry is nothing more than taxpayer funded industry of welfare educators who do not have the ability to compete in the real world with real people, without massive funding from the taxpayers.
     
  13. septimine

    septimine New Member

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    I think you'd on to something, but it's really only part of the solution. the entire structure of education is designed to teach the wrong kinds of lessons. Mostly, I think it's because we designed our education system to make little manufacturing drones, not adults. I don't think it's really designed to get kids to want to be there, because it's bad for the real purpose of that system -- conformity.

    What I think would get kids more interested in education is to re do the entire system to make it support free thinking individuals. It needs to get kids out of the classroom and solving problems that relate to the real world. Getting kids into a student run business as part of coursework would probably engage the kids far more than sitting in a course and taking notes on economics. Having to design and do an experiment would help kids understand real science much more so than doing paint by numbers experiments that have a known conclusion (which of course the students know about ahead of the experiment). Basicly, re-integrate our school system with the wider society so that students understand that they're preparing FOR something, not just warehoused until they can get old enough to graduate and move on.

    the other side is that our system spends (including college) 16 years teaching kids to sit quietly and be told what to do. It spends the same time at best ignoring the student's efforts to teach themselves things, and it actively punishes those who don't follow the teacher's directions to the letter. this is actually another counterproductive problem of education -- the things that make you good at innovating and entrepreneurship are actively discouraged. Self starting, self educating, and independent, logical thinking are more important to future success than anything else, yet those things have no place in our school system.
     
  14. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Ever consider crime is actually a profession its been with us for thousands of years, organized crime groups have on the job training and its pretty true a smart criminal can actually be successful. In fact seeing where the people live its a viable option in the inner city where drug dealing, prostitution and thugs are the ones with the money and offer protection it is likely a smart move. And a man or woman born into crime say whose family are heavy into crime its not really any different than say joining a family business running a restaurant if that is the family business.

    As for our school system globally its actually quite good our nation has a 99% literacy rate, most cases we rank in the top 25% of nations as a whole and in that place well enough and most students even if they drop out can function there are pockets of substandard education but as a whole we are doing okay. As for self-starting people you can't necessarily teach that and other things mentioned most people are not even able to be educated in my opinion they can learn things and skills but being classically educated is really for the elite maybe 5% of the population, most learn skills even medicine as a doctor is a skill set, high end automotive mechanics. While ground breaking research in medicine is done by very few truly brilliant scientists.
     
  15. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    Here's the problem. You talk about fixing the root issue, but I do not see you even addressing it. The root cause of a large amount of crime is the destruction of the nuclear family. Most people in jail come from single parent households. Boys who grow up without fathers are more likely to turn to lives of crime. This is what you're not considering. Your plan won't mean anything if there isn't first an attitude that is conducive to taking advantage of it. And most of these high risk kids are angry, nihilistic, and hostile toward the world. Because they don't feel worth anything. Thus they don't have any reason to put any stock in their education. They're not living for anything beyond today. You can't get someone to invest in their future when they don't care about tomorrow. And they won't care about tomorrow until they care about themselves.
     
  16. Bezukhov

    Bezukhov Active Member

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    What cracked me up was the whole idea of a "5th Core Class" or some such thing. The little brats aren't paying attention to the other 4, so why on Earth would they suddenly get religion and pay attention to this one?

    The only way to fix the educational system is to make it voluntary and not free. Anything that is free ultimately winds up being worthless to a lot people. Anything compulsory will engender a lot of resentment.
     
  17. DeskFan

    DeskFan New Member

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    Thats not true. The empirical reason for choosing to be career criminal, like any other occupation, is to make money. If a kid knows he or she can make 10 million legally, why would they risk dieing or going to prison and become a career criminal which makes a couple hundred thousand illegally? Empowering kids and letting them know that they truly can make millions legally will prevent them from being criminals.
     
  18. DeskFan

    DeskFan New Member

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    True, but there are 7.5 million people in parole, prison, or on probation. Education reforms might not prevent people who are born into it or people who know that they will be tremendously successful at it, but it will prevent a vast amount of people from becoming criminals and going to prison.

    With the large percentage of Americans as low wager earners and 7.5 million adults in prison, parole, and probation I believe that our education system is terrible.
     
  19. DeskFan

    DeskFan New Member

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    Even in families with two parents kids can become criminals and in families with no father kids can achieve success. What is it that the parents provide or that the parents do not provide which can make a child a successful million or make a child into a low wage earner or a criminal? It the parent's guidance, it is the parent teaching the kid about life, it is the parent teaching the kid about the world, it is the parent teaching the kid how to be successful, and it is the parent teaching the kid skill sets and how to deal with the world. Many parents treat their kids like a chia pet; they simply feed them and watch them grow. The fifth core class would allow kids to learn things that they would learn if they had the most wisest parent instead of a chia pet parent.

    Are all "high-risk" children born as criminals? If we can have a class which can give them guidance on life and the world from K-12 we can make it so that they wont become high risk kids which are angry, nihilistic, and hostile toward the world to begin with.
     
  20. DeskFan

    DeskFan New Member

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    You can't blame an untrained dog for defecating in your house and not listening to you. If you simply take the dog to an extraordinary dog obedience class, poof, the dog will stop defecating in your house and will start listening to your commands. In the same way once a child learns about the importance of education and learns about our society, life, and the world the child will start doing well in school.
     
  21. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Blame employers they are the ones favoring college grads for jobs that don't need one and further parents and employers for taking away vocational education for employment entry in High School where its pretty much free. I don't blame schools here they might offer vocational High Schools if there was a clear demand and benefit to that guided by the needs of employers and desires of parents.

    If your expecting an average student to go to college and earn a STEM degree your smoking something but they could be an automotive tech or plumber or barber or could joined the armed forces and advance that way which requires a High School diploma or some college for the best chance to get in.
     
  22. DeskFan

    DeskFan New Member

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    All it takes is a little guidance, determination, and self improvement to make a less than average student become a rocket scientist. We all have the same potential its just that many kids are underprivileged in a number of ways ranging from having bad parents, to being raised in a crime infested area, to being raised in poverty. Once I am wealthy I will change the United State's education system for the better.
     
  23. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxmIFbfhuew

    This is a bit long but fits. I will note the first part of the video if the Army when we arguably had the best education system in the world had to offer remedial 4th grade and 8th grade classes to soldiers (drafted or enlisted) and this I assume is a microcosm of the wider society since there was a draft - what makes you think the issue is correctable for all students now?

    Lets look at this at a practical matter backgrounds are an issue such as poverty. Some students don't want to learn and later regret it. Some students don't have the aptitude for some levels of work they might not understand to a degree mathematics but might be very good at hands-on learning, and demonstrate sufficient mathematics for an area of work. Its likely not a large number but taking 100 students all of the spread of abilities won't 25% be bad in something they might not do well in art, sports or be good in tested areas like mathematics. But the same students usually are good in other areas the poor mathematics performer could be a fine musician that is where they are strong. So why not offer options to focus on what students do well if they are poor in academic areas deemed important to society so they have something? Say in the example just now a basic education and musical training it would offer at least work as a musician when done.
     

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