The Crisis of Having A Great Nation

Discussion in 'Education' started by upside-down cake, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

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    When you view the crisis of the world, the common thing to think is that if only we could fix all the problems that are inflicted on it, then the world will become a more perfect society, and a general sense of universal happiness will prevail.

    The world is a very big laboratory, so I'll just limit this to the US. I have one question...

    What if every citizen in the United States was a four year scholar and genius? They, on average, knew two languages and were proficient at two forms of profession? Assuming that one gets these things to escape the low side of society and basically find employment with a high payout, does better education solve the problem? Does making every citizen into a professional, lawful, intelligent being change the distribution of resources in the nation? Will everyone then become affluent businessmen or well-paid employees somewhere or another?

    Or does this now highly intelligent and talented society remain distributed among the very same range of jobs- low, middle, and high- that exist now. The only thing now is that now these very people who seemed to deserve where they are because of a lack of education, money, or whatever, now are over-qualified, but the dirt jobs still need doing, and there are only so many positions at the top, and they tend to be filled save for a relatively few openings here and there.

    When you think about the perfect society, it's not perfect because the structure of society demands the distribution you see around you. It actually enforces it. There must be workers and laborers. There must be cleaners and coachmen. It is more beneficial to the maintenance men of society that the people who occupied these jobs view themselves and be viewed as naturally belonging to that bracket. Otherwise, you have highly intelligent people who are over-qualified and unsatisfied who look up and wonder..."Why, exactly, do I work for him? Why is his share so much greater than my own? Why is my labor not rewarded as his labor is? Why am I the servant, and he is the master? What am I working towards? What is the end result of my labors in the grand scheme of the world? Why do I labor to increase the position of another man to the detriment of myself?

    Intelligent, talented people will not stand for that system for very long, but civilization is built on that system. Yet people believe that greater education will create a greater system. Maybe, the system was not designed for the betterment of everyone. Maybe it requires that some succeed, and others fail. Maybe that system is actually watched and enforced to assure it's preservation.

    This is all a speculation, but I wanted to now what people think about it. I don't mind people calling it dumb, just please include why it is dumb.
     
  2. debatewithme

    debatewithme New Member

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    Your speculation isn't dumb. You have a very good point. Utopia is one of my favorite books, so I will quote it here:
    Utopia (Sir Saint Thomas More) pg. 9

    If you do not find a remedy to evils it is a vain thing to boast of your severity in punishing theft, which, though it may have the appearance of justice, yet in itself is neither just nor convienient; for if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this but that you first make thieves, and then punish them for it?

    I love this passage because it has a undeniable point. If we do not educate our people we are letting them become ill educated and unable to get jobs which will support their families, leading them to commit crimes which we will punish them for. Now, I don't particularly like that society has made it so you can not go very high in a job without a college degree. Most companies don't even care if you degree has anything to do with the position just as long as you have a degree, and I find a major flaw in that. That being said I do see the value of an education. In our society, it is now necessary to have an education in order to have a stable financial life. Not only that but education is a wonderful thing. I myself love to learn. I am working on my college degree as we speak and its making things worlds easier for me.

    Both my parents did not go to college. They got married and hit the ground running and now my father is one of the best tool makers in the state and runs his own shop, my mom is the administrative assistant of the manager of IPP (the powerplant which produces most of California's power). Both of my parents have done extremely well for not having a college education, but they both admit this happened with an extreeme amount of luck, and an extreeme amount of hardship in money troubles which almost tore them apart several times. They also admit that they had this success because they made those positions before the rule was put in that a college education was required. Which means that now days, in order to succeed you almost HAVE to get a college education.

    This is long, sorry, but I'm still going :)

    On your other point about their needing to be lower and higher classes of people I agree with you completely. With out such things we wouldn't not be a functoning society. There are certain people that are leaders and other people that are workers. It is in their nature. I think, no matter how much we educate other people, there will still be that line of whos in charge and whos not. Though, the line may be a lot thinner than before.

    There is a company called IDEAL, they are a company based around taking a product and making it better. But in this company the managers are right next to the workers and the workers are right next to the managers. There is still a line there, and everyone still knows who is in charge. But, they work so closley together that an outside party looking in wouldn't even be able to tell who is manager and who is worker.

    I see that as a good society.
     
  3. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    First off, there are a limited amount of smart people who inhabit the earth. And there are masses of idiots and drones who go to college, mount up debt, and can't perform squat when they need to. Much less get a job with their expensive degree. College is only good if it is used correctly. there are masses of smart people who did not take a loan and rack up debt, and are working in the industries making 6 figure incomes. And there are tons of americans in union jobs making big fat money without a 4 year degree.

    And there are the soldiers who sacrificed so much to get so little, but yet they learned and developed characteristics that no amount of college can teach. And most of these individuals are the top 1%ers of the population when it comes to performing and performing under pressure. IMO these individuals are the true americans. And they are what americans should be. But public education and corporations have dumbed down the americans for the past 2 generations. And that is why we are at this juncture today. But these X-military americans are the ones that will succeed and represent this failing nation in all aspects of bidness, employment, and technology. Note: education plays no part in improving the USA, as education is the USA's main downfall.
     
  4. septimine

    septimine New Member

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    I think it's about half right. It's not the education pro or con. The problem is the lack of "self-starters", which actually is CAUSED by our system rather than being something that is a result of raw "brain power". The thing is that our education system (k-12) punishes independence and never really rewards self-starting. Kids are taught to do only what the teacher tells them to do, writing a paper that doesn't say what the teacher wants them to say gets you a lower score. And really there's zero educational support for self-starting in the normal school day. there's no time for a kid interested in dinosaurs to go to the school library and read about dinosaurs, no time for a kid into business to research stocks or stores or logistics. You do what the teacher says when the teacher says it. Even the so-called science lab courses do the same thing -- you're doing color by number, you know the results of the experiment that the teacher picked long before you pull out the test tubes. None of that teaches the real skills of the 21st century -- namely self-starting and independent reasoning. You learn to obey, not to think, and the kids who cannot break that brainwashing will be left behind.
     
  5. Ramboner

    Ramboner New Member

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    Never happen in The Great Satan. It's a nation of bloodlines that are the worst of the worst who's relatives couldn't cut it in their home nations.Many came with nothing. No education, no money,nada.Perfect fodder for the military-industrial complex. Strong back-weak mind.You outlawed slavery so "they" had to replace them with something.
     

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