Left-Wing Violence Rocks Seattle... Police Attacked... Businesses Destroyed

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MolonLabe2009, May 2, 2013.

  1. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    Another person who doesn't understand the situation.

    These young folks are not weaklings who are going to put up with a loaded system. It doesn't work for them so they will eventually
    tear it down. Or at least change it more in their favor.
     
  2. Never Left

    Never Left Banned

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    Arn't the 99%er's special people. What happened in Seattle is what we can expect to see everywhere should leftist loserism spread to a greater degree.
     
  3. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    You've got to learn how to read the news. Reporters will only interview the least articulate demonstrators they can find. The purpose of the main stream media (the corporate controlled media) is to make the demonstration meaningless, attended by confused, stoned, losers.

    In your case it seems like their propaganda worked.
     
  4. philxx

    philxx New Member

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    And then there is the actual truth about what happened ,guess what the Capitialist MEDIA tells lies!

    [h=1]World Socialist Web Site[/h][h=2]Published by the International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI)[/h]

    [h=2]Seventeen arrested at May Day protests in Seattle, Washington[/h][h=5]By David Brown
    3 May 2013[/h]May Day protests in Seattle, Washington ended with 17 arrests as police clashed with protesters. Like last year, the Seattle Police Department (SPD) used the marches as an opportunity to experiment with crowd-control techniques and test out new equipment.
    The day began with several marches and rallies centered on immigration reform. Despite their peaceful nature, there was already a strong police presence. At 6 pm, an “anti-capitalist” march (with a heavy anarchist presence) began at Seattle Central Community College.
    The police immediately concentrated their forces and set about containing the unpermitted march with mounted police, bicycle cops, pepper spray, clubs and “blast balls”—a grenade-like mix of flashbangs (also known as stun grenades) and pepper spray.
    The crowd was hemmed in by police and herded through the streets. Around 8:00 pm, police began making arrests and using pepper spray. By 8:30 they gave the order for protesters to disperse or face arrest.
    Eyewitness and video accounts give the impression that the police actions were premeditated and not a reaction to an “unruly” crowd, as claimed by the media. Jordan Eisen told the Seattle Times “They’re making this into a war zone when it’s not. If you’re in a crowd and you’re surrounded by police in riot gear, you get defensive.”
    The Times noted that one man was arrested at Cal Anderson Park because he “was suspected of throwing rocks at police.” The Times reports, “Friends of the man…deny he was throwing rocks during the protest. They said officers grabbed him earlier in the evening, but he was able to slip out of his backpack. ‘He didn’t throw [anything]’ said one young woman, who claimed she was pepper sprayed and hit with a baton during the march.
    “‘For the most part, it was a peaceful protest,’ a second woman said,” according to the Times .
    The Times has a collection of photographs and videos showing police making liberal use of pepper spray and stun grenades, wielding long wooden batons, and using bicycles to push and corral protesters.
    By the end of the night police had arrested 17 people on suspicion of either vandalism or throwing objects at police. Officials claimed eight police were “injured,” largely with scrapes and bruises, while one was allegedly hit in the leg by a rock. Untold scores of protesters were pepper-sprayed, hit with batons, or shoved to the ground.
    Seattle has a long history of large protests and harsh police measures, beginning with the World Trade Organization protests in 1999. Especially since the Occupy movement and its violent dispersal, the role of the SPD has been to push forward the state’s ability to suppress crowds.
    During last year’s “anti-capitalist” march, the mayor issued an emergency order authorizing the police to preemptively confiscate anything that could be used as a weapon in the downtown area of the city. Being caught with something that could be construed as a weapon carried a punishment of up to 180 days in jail.
    The federal government used a grand jury investigation into the smashing of a courthouse door to hold several protesters for months in solitary confinement in order to question them about the political beliefs of their friends. (See, “US judge orders release of two anarchists held for five months without charges”)
    An instructional video for “blast balls” featuring a Seattle Police Officer makes the connection between mass protests and the development of police techniques quite explicit. According to officer Chris Myers, after the WTO protests, “our patrol officers are encountering violent crowds and violent subjects on a regular basis.”
    These measures, as made clear in the recent lockdown in Boston, are being developed not as an exception, but as default actions to be taken in response to any social protests.


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    And then there is the actual truth about what happened ,guess what the Capitialist MEDIA tells lies!

    [h=1]World Socialist Web Site[/h][h=2]Published by the International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI)[/h]

    [h=2]Seventeen arrested at May Day protests in Seattle, Washington[/h][h=5]By David Brown
    3 May 2013[/h]May Day protests in Seattle, Washington ended with 17 arrests as police clashed with protesters. Like last year, the Seattle Police Department (SPD) used the marches as an opportunity to experiment with crowd-control techniques and test out new equipment.
    The day began with several marches and rallies centered on immigration reform. Despite their peaceful nature, there was already a strong police presence. At 6 pm, an “anti-capitalist” march (with a heavy anarchist presence) began at Seattle Central Community College.
    The police immediately concentrated their forces and set about containing the unpermitted march with mounted police, bicycle cops, pepper spray, clubs and “blast balls”—a grenade-like mix of flashbangs (also known as stun grenades) and pepper spray.
    The crowd was hemmed in by police and herded through the streets. Around 8:00 pm, police began making arrests and using pepper spray. By 8:30 they gave the order for protesters to disperse or face arrest.
    Eyewitness and video accounts give the impression that the police actions were premeditated and not a reaction to an “unruly” crowd, as claimed by the media. Jordan Eisen told the Seattle Times “They’re making this into a war zone when it’s not. If you’re in a crowd and you’re surrounded by police in riot gear, you get defensive.”
    The Times noted that one man was arrested at Cal Anderson Park because he “was suspected of throwing rocks at police.” The Times reports, “Friends of the man…deny he was throwing rocks during the protest. They said officers grabbed him earlier in the evening, but he was able to slip out of his backpack. ‘He didn’t throw [anything]’ said one young woman, who claimed she was pepper sprayed and hit with a baton during the march.
    “‘For the most part, it was a peaceful protest,’ a second woman said,” according to the Times .
    The Times has a collection of photographs and videos showing police making liberal use of pepper spray and stun grenades, wielding long wooden batons, and using bicycles to push and corral protesters.
    By the end of the night police had arrested 17 people on suspicion of either vandalism or throwing objects at police. Officials claimed eight police were “injured,” largely with scrapes and bruises, while one was allegedly hit in the leg by a rock. Untold scores of protesters were pepper-sprayed, hit with batons, or shoved to the ground.
    Seattle has a long history of large protests and harsh police measures, beginning with the World Trade Organization protests in 1999. Especially since the Occupy movement and its violent dispersal, the role of the SPD has been to push forward the state’s ability to suppress crowds.
    During last year’s “anti-capitalist” march, the mayor issued an emergency order authorizing the police to preemptively confiscate anything that could be used as a weapon in the downtown area of the city. Being caught with something that could be construed as a weapon carried a punishment of up to 180 days in jail.
    The federal government used a grand jury investigation into the smashing of a courthouse door to hold several protesters for months in solitary confinement in order to question them about the political beliefs of their friends. (See, “US judge orders release of two anarchists held for five months without charges”)
    An instructional video for “blast balls” featuring a Seattle Police Officer makes the connection between mass protests and the development of police techniques quite explicit. According to officer Chris Myers, after the WTO protests, “our patrol officers are encountering violent crowds and violent subjects on a regular basis.”
    These measures, as made clear in the recent lockdown in Boston, are being developed not as an exception, but as default actions to be taken in response to any social protests.


    About the WSWS | Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Top of page
    Copyright © 1998-2013 World Socialist Web Site - All rights reserved



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  5. Eighty Deuce

    Eighty Deuce New Member Past Donor

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    Actually the opposite occurred. The Obama media, and Obama himself, tried to make the OWS folks appear credible. Closer examination revealed that they were mostly free-stuff losers.

    It seems in your case, you were taken in by Obama and his minions.
     
  6. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    No employers should not have the advantage over the oppressed employee.

    They create conditions where they drive down wages and over work the middle class, so that they can fill their pockets with enormous profits.

    And if an employee were to stand up to the Business owners tyranny of 80 hour work weeks, they are harassed with threats of termination. That will not be tolerated in left wing world, it must stop now.

    Welfare must be generous, business tax rates must be higher, and people should have the choice to boycott business to live off the taxpayer. They will only return when higher salaries are offered, comprehensive benefits packages, and less work hours with generous vacation time are provided for the common man.
     
  7. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is the problem.

    Right here.

    You can't portray the problem any better than that.

    Nobody owes you a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) thing in this world. You don't deserve squat besides that which you provide for yourself. Your entitlement mentality that you either get what you want, or you become a victim is the purpose of whiners and bellyachers, which is preciously the reason why these people AREN'T successful.

    In the market place, you get exactly what your labor is worth. If there is an abundance of people who are willing to do the same job you are doing for less money... guess what? You earn less. On the converse, if there is a limited number of people capable or willing to do the job you are doing, you will earn more.

    So what we have here, and what you are advocating for, is ENTITLING the people that aren't worth some arbitrary value to a level they THINK they should be worth. And when they don't get their way, they riot. Once again... what a bunch of babies.

    You don't think you are getting paid enough? THATS YOUR FAULT. Not the "evil" or "greedy" businesses. If your salary isn't high enough, then gain more experience, education, or bring something more to the table to increase your market value.


    Why is this concept so difficult to grasp?
     
  8. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    What is the Obama media?

    Closer examination by who?

    You can't make an argument with made up facts.
     
  9. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Have you hired one of these young punks lately? They are worthless. No work ethic, no respect for people or property, and they feel 'entitled' to things they have never earned...
     
  10. Eighty Deuce

    Eighty Deuce New Member Past Donor

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    Then why did you do it ?

    It is like pulling teeth for the liberals to realize that their free-stuff rallies were about free-stuff. And now they feel like they didn't get enough free stuff, and have turned to more violence.

    Let them keep it up. Will soon run into the Koreans and others who take the Second Amendment quite seriously.
     
  11. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    You are missing the point. This isn't about getting something for nothing.

    " If there is an abundance of people who are willing to do the same job you are doing for less money... guess what? You earn less"
    This is true. But that's not what this is about. The reason there are so many looking for the same job is because the owner class has sent our jobs overseas. They have manipulated the government so they can get the same goods made in low wage countries there by cutting our young people out of a future.

    The tax load has been shifted from the rich to the middle class.

    Instead of repairing our infrastructure our treasury goes to eternal war and financial industry bail outs.

    These are some of the reasons for these demonstrations. Fox doesn't tell you about any of this.
     
  12. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Um... no. You have an overly romanticized view of an anti-capitalist movement. It is a perfect environment where any violence or destruction is predicated by authority, up to and including black bloc provocateurs. This is an extension of the mentality that you are owed something, and that the establishment has tethered you.

    You can do anything you (*)(*)(*)(*)ing want in this country. Literally ANYTHING is possible. If you are too stupid to do anything grander than dig ditches... there is no shame at all in that... what you do is definitely harder than what I do... it is also worth a lot less. If however you are on the dole... well you should be ashamed.

    I know more about OWS than you do. I was a lot more involved than you were. Most of the people in DC NY Oakland Seattle were slack jawed stoner idiots crying "where's my stuff... I look around... everybody's got stuff... wheres MY stuff?" eat the rich morons. There were very interesting people involved as well... such as myself... but do not preach to me about what OWS is. How long were your boots on the ground? How many cities?
     
  13. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    I reject that idea. Maybe some hangers on are there for excitement and express those sentiments. But there is a real need for people to take to the streets and demand changes.

    If they don't they will slip into serfdom. That's the direction our society is being steered.

    Personally, I'm not involved because I'm too old. This is no longer my world. But I've lived long enough to have seen how we have economically declined.

    My generation enjoyed the benefits of the fights our fathers fought and won and did little to preserve them. The pendulum of this class war has swung far to the side of the rich and it's only the very young who seem to have noticed.

    They better fight hard or they, and their children will have a crappy life of poverty.
     
  14. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never said it was.

    I said that you are not entitled to jack (*)(*)(*)(*), free or otherwise. Levels of compensation included.

    That is like a type writer complaining its not fair, so it deserves to be used over a computer.

    Get up to speed. This county can't compete at a manufacturing level inside global trade. We will continue to have limited numbers of service level jobs, and so long as we are failing to educate our populace to be management, professional, and executive level positions OVER these manufacturing jobs, its going to get more and more painful.

    That isn't the riches fault. That is fault of our government driven education system and people who continue to fail to understand the importance of high levels of education to be successful.

    Once again, nobody owes you anything. A job included. The purpose of a job is to make a profit, and by outsourcing they are able to increase margins to the benefit of their shareholders.

    I know you have to find a boogey man, but capitalism isn't it. Its just a popular excuse.

    Let me guess... you look the other way at the size of government and claim that too many rich people aren't paying taxes.

    But... its easier just to blame the boogey man for this too. Government is doing such a great job saving you. /sarcasm

    Keep on ready Huffpo, Salon, and watching MSNBC.

    Government will save you from those evil rich.

    Unreal. (*)(*)(*)(*)ing brainwashed class warfare, and you don't even see that YOU are the pawn. All those people advocating in your favor, Pelosi, Obama, Bill Maher...

    All RICH AS HELL.

    Keep on drinking that koolaid.
     
  15. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those views are not expressed by your numbers. Your numbers are a mishmash of anti-capitalist groups, complete morons, conspiracy theorist disestablishment types with bleedover to anarchist groups of various flavors and Anonymous folk. The bored and entitled. Nancy Pelosi blessed the movement. You are useful idiots to this administration because you drum up eat the rich sentiment out of basist jealous impotence. "The economy is bad... hey that guy's got money... (*)(*)(*)(*) him" bull(*)(*)(*)(*). THAT is where your droves come from. That this guy or that guy has an honest concern they want addressed... is drown by the idiots throwing their urine. MIC CHECK

    I appreciated the technical aspect of slamming together a network of eyes and ears with roving command centers... the quick orchestration of multiple feeds to keep the powers in check AND the people in check. That was a thing of beauty. You should check out Byzantium. The notion that crowds en masse can tape EVERYTHING and broadcast it should the government start shutting internet nodes down. That is hotsauce. I couldn't resist.


    Most of the wealthy in this country did not create the economic crash, and those who did were not all malfeasant. I believe those who participated in predatory lending etc should be punished... and that they are not all rotting in jail is a real issue.

    We are a nation of laws. Terror tactics are not how it should be approached. And that is who you invited. Revolutionaries of all eat the rich stripes.
     
  16. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]

    That was the invitation. That is who you invited.

    What is our one demand?
     
  17. Stuart Wolfe

    Stuart Wolfe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I guess OWS is demanding more yoga instructors.
     
  18. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    The tea party are pawns of the establishment, whose original message (which was actually anti-establishment) has been swept aside, and has simply been coopted into the Republican party. Why would a movement of establishment stooges do anything to oppose the establishment?!?!! They will kindly and passively stand by, and help the people ruining their lives and the country, do more ruining!! The tea party are basically the equivalent of a guy getting angry that people are stealing from them, by pointing out that they had forgotten a few things!!

    I have and had respect for the original tea party, which was actually ideologically coherent. The new tea party, AKA the Republican party wearing silly hats, is a joke. So of course people who actually see and oppose the injustices this country faces are going to act differently. The system is broken at a deep and structural level, and voting for super Republicans (who are the problem), won't solve anything. Don't be angry because elements of the left have woken up to this fact, and refuse to rely on the corrupt and incompetent Democratic party to get things done!!

    PS. Attacking businesses is pointless and stupid, unless it is the headquarters of a multinational corporation. I am not defending the actions of these people, simply pointing out that the idea that we should quietly and passively sit by and pretend that we can do anything through the electoral system, is naive to an extreme extent. It will take millions of people in the street, demanding real change, to put an end to capitalism as it is currently practiced. Unless capitalism in this country and across the globe reforms itself as significantly as it did during the depression and in the post-WWII era, it is unsustainable. And the day of reckoning is coming soon, because my generation has unemployment and underemployment rates among recent college graduates of around 40%. That is a recipe for disaster. So either government will end its current policy of promoting the interests of wealthy elite interests, at the expense of everyone else, or things may get very very bad. Much worse than a few people in Seattle breaking some stuff. I just hope it doesn't take the rise of fascism again (which we are already seeing in many places in Europe), to push the short-sighted global elite to that point.
     
  19. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    The occupy movement is full of conspiracy theorists? :giggle: The tea party doesn't seem to have a position that isn't a reference to some idiotic conspiracy theory. Obama is a Kenyan, wants to take all our guns, Benghazi, Newtown was a hoax to steal our guns, etc, etc, etc. And of course stupidest of all, that the corporatist capitalist Obama, whose largest campaign contributors were the wall street banks, whose health care reform was a giant hand out to insurance companies, etc is a socialist!! He is an enemy of small business, as all our presidents for decades now have been, but he is a great friend to capitalists and capitalist profit. Anyone who doesn't see that is stupid, dishonest, blinded by partisanship, or pretending because they benefit from the system.

    The only conspiracies I ever heard among occupy people (to be fair I was never heavily involved, except in a minor way), related to silly stuff about the federal reserve. Considering how secretive they are, and the fact that even experts don't understand its practices entirely, the federal reserve is an easy target for such conspiracies.

    Next up, the idea that this corporatist administration, which is in the pockets of elite capitalist and corporate interests, finds occupy useful, is retarded!! They found them irrelevant, and they were made to look like criminals, homeless people, and scum. I was actually at the protests. While some number of people met that description, it was a extraordinarily tiny minority. It is simply the way the establishment used to discredit a movement that was made up of mostly intelligent young people. Those people were naive and disorganized, but that was simply the moments of infancy in such a movement. It will only get more coherent and more organized if capitalism and the system isn't reformed in a serious way. I believe it will, because capitalism has always showed itself, despite what marxists will have you believe, to be extraordinarily flexible, adaptable, and durable. I just hope things don't descend to the points of the early to mid twentieth century, for that reform to take place.
     
  20. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    Wake up. You actually have no idea what you are talking about. I mean that in as objective a way as possible. You were never at a single occupy protest, so what you are doing is mindlessly parroting right wing propaganda you heard on either Fox News or some stupid blog. Those of us who were actually in New York at the time, know better. Most of the people living in the park were on the strange side (most of us have responsibilities which preclude us from living in the park), but thousands of others showed up regularly, and were intelligent young people, who saw the system for what it is. If only other people would stop being collaborators in their own demise, things would get much better.
     
  21. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    :bored: More collaboration!! More house slaves thanking the master for the scraps!! The only people who are actually entitled in this country are the capitalists. The wealthy elites, who have the entirety of government power working to their benefit. All the rest of the people who oppose this system, are simply demanding that government stop helping the rich further enrich themselves off the back of the rest of society. A simple demand from those of us who are not good house slaves!! I am all in favor of markets, as long as they are fair and free, but in capitalism that IS NEVER the case. Instead the market is manipulated by government and capitalists to their benefit. Anyone who doesn't oppose a system which is both de facto and de jure stacked against them, has internalized corporatist propaganda, and is simply a collaborator telling the prison guard they forgot to lock their cell door!!
     
  22. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wah.

    Or... you could step up and do something useful, and realize you have nothing to (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) about.

    I write a widget every now and then. I integrate my widgets into things, and sell them... then they pay me every month for the use of my widget which saves them time/money/makes their business easier. I do... very little work for my income. I could make a lot more money just pushing my products... but... I am just so lazy. I get bored and do contract work. I just make clever products that make processes easier and automated... integrated. It really is just finding markets that use proprietary software that doesn't really work well, and writing a tool or set of tools to do everything for the user... and then making it available to that market.

    I am watching my gigantic television, on my farm, eating some Pizza Hut... debt free... deciding whether or not to put on pants today wondering exactly how I am being oppressed by the 1%. I am not afraid of the 1%. I have no desire to be the 1% either. I am... just too lazy to deal with wealth. Teach yourself a new computer language. Figure something out. You are in the land of opportunity.

    It doesn't come with free drive.
     
  23. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    People so easily lap up capitalist propaganda and eat the scraps thrown their way, that I lose faith in humanity. Literally NOT everything is possible in America. That is an objective fact. Do you know what objective means? It is not arguable. In this country a small group of elite wealthy interests have stacked the deck in their favor, and the entire system is set up to their benefit. They let people think that by being cogs in the system that exists to their benefit, they are living the American dream, because they threw just enough scraps their way that they could get by. The problem is, the wealthy have been hogging more and more for themselves, because they are short-sighted and have forgotten the lessons of the past. They now throw fewer and fewer scraps to people, and unless that changes, their will be reckoning.
     
  24. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    :bored: So boring!! I have useful skills, high income job opportunities, and highly marketable academic background. I was offered a job by the state department and by Goldman Sachs, and turned them both down to work for a non-profit in Egypt. With the ultimate goal of getting a PHD and becoming a professor. I worked in the "real world" and made about 80k a year in my mid twenties. If I thought my only value as a human being, was determined by market forces, and my value as a human being was determined by what that market judged my skills to be worth, I could have made lots of money. I would have hated myself and my life, so I didn't. So don't lecture me. You are simply fine with the scraps and involving yourself in a deeply immoral system. I have decided to involve myself in another immoral system (academia), but one that is slightly less immoral. It isn't perfect, but in our current system, it is the best I could do.
     
  25. Eighty Deuce

    Eighty Deuce New Member Past Donor

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    Hey. At the end of the day, it was folks who wanted free-stuff. "Living wage". Student loans forgiven.

    These were overwhelmingly Obama supporters. Obama who keeps shoveling money to Wall Street !!

    OWS came not to mean "occupy wall street", but rather Obama's Wall Street !!
     

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