Should Military Service be mandatory for all?

I agree , there so many other ways to serve our country. Go and volunteer at Special Olypics are join the Peace Corps . Tutor a kid ...........

 

My Dad, rest his soul, was drafted in 1944 shortly after graduating from high school at the tender age of 18. He had one choice, did he want the Army or Navy....he chose the Army as being on a boat for an extensive period of time was not appealing...after that they line you up and a draft board representative walks by...calling out and pointing his finger at each draftee as he walks by.

Army, Army, Army, Marine, Army, Marine, Army, Army....and so on

What? he thought to himself, I picked the Army, what is this Marine business all about...

The Marines in 1944 already had a reputation for some serious battles in the Pacific, and as there were fewer support elements, if you were a Marine, odds are you were going to see combat.

So my Dad held his breath as the finger pointed his way......"Army"...
phewwwww....he let out a deep breath...thank God I'm not going into the Marines.

Months later after basic and advanced infantry training, he found himself in Belgium as a replacement infantryman in the 75th infantry division...M1 Garand in hand...no combat experience...Christmas Eve and the early stages of the German offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge. Scared...cold and homesick; welcome to combat.

He survived all that and although a reluctant soldier on a good day....he did his duty, never got into too much trouble and never went out of his way to be particularly heroic. He served honorably by anyone's standards.

The happiest day of his life was separating from the Army....and yet through all of that he instilled in me a sense of honor to the military experience, and while I did not follow in his footsteps as an enlisted rifleman, I did voluntarily serve beginning with ROTC in college. Like my Dad, I was none too eager to experience combat...I would be perfectly at ease in the support elements; at least if I had a choice in the matter.

My point is, I do not think everyone is suited for the military lifestyle. Short of a serious need for personnel, maintaining an all voluntary military is best for morale and motivation purposes. We may always have an Army of scared, cold and homesick 18-34 year olds fighting our wars, but they should ALWAYS make the voluntary choice of their own free will, to do so.

 

Ok, I'm going to call B.S. on this one. This may be the first time I've agreed with Libhater, but he has it exactly right.

Before we all fade away, go find a few dozen of drafted Vets. Try to find one that will condemn his service. No doubt you can find loads that didn't agree with the war policy, me among them, and the odd vet might have objected to having missed some event, ( ducking bullets during Woodstock ). But I'm pretty sure you're going have some trouble finding someone objecting to the idea of service. It's one of those things that you wouldn't have missed for the world and certainly wouldn't take the world to go back.

You don't understand the idea of Freedom unless you are willing to personally sacrifice to maintain it.

 

Libhater is wrong, I don't really care what this "few dozen of drafted Vets" you claim to speak for has to say about it.

You don't understand the idea of Freedom if you think forcibly enslaving people into the military is compatible with it.

 

No draft = Immoral
Short of an imminent invasion or actual survival of a nation...
Conscription is immoral. If government’s purpose is to protect your individual rights, it can't then claim title to your most basic right, your very life, in exchange.

No draft = Practical
Not only that, you talk to anyone involved in the training process, the process of molding a raw recruit into a military professional...they do not want drafted personnel...they want motivated volunteers who want to be there.

No draft = Historical failure
The Vietnam war is a classic example of the failure of the draft, as most units Vietnam were composed of draftees who shuffled rapidly in and out of units, greatly complicating the task of leaders. A corrosion of ethical integrity ensued, particularly in the officer corps.

 

I think those that are against the idea of a mandatory service, may be forgetting something.


There are literally hundreds of jobs in the active military. Very few of them include actual combat.
Especially in the Navy or Air Force or Coast Guard, but in the Army and Marines as well. Who do you think does all the damn paperwork? Takes care of supplies? Works on engines? Watches the radar screens? Most if not all of these jobs provide valuable work experience to any kid that he can use when he gets a civilian job. Not to mention the experience of working as part of a team and learning the importance of discipline. Employers were more apt to hire a vet for those reasons alone.
Some kids, not the ones posting on this forum of course, but some of us need a little push at that young age.
And with the present economy and no jobs, why not give these kids something useful to do?

I have not seen any logical arguments against military service to your own country.
Very few kids are "untrainable" was the word someone used here.

 

You obviously have not served in the US military

 

This represents the worst type of moocher, someone wants all the benefits and someone else to shoulder the sacrifice. Freedom has never been free, its paid for by duty to your fellow citizens. The military is but one common example, but service should be mandatory for every able bodied citizen. It is price of admission to American society. As it has been for countless societies, those that would refuse to serve when called upon by their fellow citizens should not expect to share in their bounty.

 

I believe you wrong on all counts.

Conscription to service is as old as the Tribe. Every member of a group owes a duty to the entire group. Banishment and Exile have been the traditional response to those who refuse their duty. If morality enters into it at all, then it sides with those willing to sacrifice for the good of all.

Turning a raw recruit into a soldier is something else that has been done through out history. I don't particularly want an army of only those excited by going into combat. If you want to sterilize it into a mere occupation, then you need to ask yourself who you would prefer to face, the guy fighting for money or excitement, or the guy defending his home and family? If you think your "professional" military is somehow more noble than the typical mercenary army, then explain the thousands of volunteers that left the Service to join Blackwater or similar "private contractors".

And history is firmly on the side of the citizen soldier. Simply compare the vets from the RVN and the current problems with PTSD and the returning soldiers from the Mideast. In the 60s, you had 2.5 Million returning vets right into the teeth of protests holding them responsible for an unpopular war. You had disgruntled vets feeling unappreciated, but few facing the severe challenges of reintegrating into society that has become all too common in the "modern" era. While a few career soldiers saw multiple deployments, very few Nam vets had to face 4th or 5th rotations in theater.

And in case you haven't had the news on for the last few years, keeping units together over multiple deployments has not worked out too well. First you have the problem of combat loyalty where vets feel compelled to reenlist not because they want to be career military, but can't face "deserting" their unit when they redeploy. This is also leading to addition trauma when a unit member is lost or severely wounded. The survivor guilt has become debilitating to entire units. There are reasons the military is currently facing "an epidemic" of suicides.

 

No, it isn't. I want nothing to do with the military, the military is the biggest moocher of an institution sucking billions of dollars out of the U.S. economy that could be going toward worthwhile causes. I should not be forced to suffer the "bounty" of this destructive institution.

 

What a coincidence!
I was thinking the same about you!

Or maybe you were one of the people you like to call "untrainable"
And so you are speaking from that experience.

 

I have served in the Greek army , terrible waste of 2 years but getting training in heavy weapons was nice .
99% of the time spent was guard duty, equipment maintenance and cleaning duty .

 

Okay I'd be all for this if you include everyone men and women, disabled and fit and social class this means a person in a wheelchair can be in uniform with full benefits and all the other perks and opt to REUP.

 

It's so odd to see so many "small government" Conservatives so eager to implement a law that potentially makes the government bigger.

 

With an all volunteer Army, that may be exactly what you get....."an Army of scared, cold and homeless 18-34 year olds fighting our wars.
An Army made up of people who join out of desperation. And your ok with that as long as you don't have to go?

 

You the Man!

 

Nowadays, uncivilised and backward countries conscript their citizens into the military.

 

I served for 18 years 5 months, 12 days...
10 years in the active U.S. Air Force
8.5 years in the U.S. Air Force Reserves...

So please spare me the..."how come you didn't serve" speech.

I am against the draft...and it's a myth that only the lower socio-economic strata volunteer for military service.....
it was more often the case that the lower socio-economic starta were drafted. Historically, conscription was unfair...the well to do could find deferments....while the lower income strata took the brunt of the draft lotteries and actually followed through and didn't run off to Canada or get a college student deferment.

 

We have discussed this enough times already: the best way to eliminate war is to end all war profits.

When the government no longer has the money to fight a war and when wealthy elites no longer profit from conflict, all our foreign wars will end.

 

Why would a nation ever conscript people into service when an all volunteer force suffices for our needs? That notion is simply preposterous.

 

Your service is appreciated by all. Especially me.
But that is not the issue.
There are also good reasons to support conscription.
Some have been offered in this thread by various posters.
You are exactly right in that the flaws need to be addressed... such as putting all the weight on the lower class
and letting the rich kids get over. There should not be those kinds of loopholes.
But that is no logical reason to "throw the baby out with the bathwater."
There is way too much "black and white" thinking. Or should I say "ALL OR NOTHING" thinking in this country,
especially in political matters. You don't think that is childish? Everyone here loves to complain and point fingers at the President and the boneheads in congress. When we point a finger, there are always three pointing back at us.
Even a dumb____ like me can see that.

 

LOL
Cool!
But only the "uncivilized and backward" citizens right?

 

COOL!

I'd vote for that.

 

Someone posted a very good reason earlier..."You also didn't have the massive problems of continuous redeployment. There were enough troops in the pipeline to limit your exposure in a contained conflict like Nam."

The redeployment is taking a toll on our soldiers physically mentally. The suicide rate is high in the present military.

 

The only way I would ever support a draft is to

A. Include EVERYONE....male, female...rich, poor and in-between. No deferments. You have asthma? great we'll give you a desk job, but you're still going to serve. EVERYONE serves in some capacity.

B. Provide a CLEAR option to avoid direct military combat entirely...
if this means staying stateside picking up trash along the highway...
if someone is adverse to killing, they should not be forced to do so.

Even with that, I am still very reluctant to support conscription, unless there is an absolute dire need of personnel.

There are other ways to encourage young people to be good citizens aside from military service. I'm not opposed to providing more government supported avenues that encourage young people to help their communities...however fighting wars changes a person...and not always for the positive...I truly believe it is immoral for a government to force it's citizenry to kill or be killed in exchange for protecting their freedoms. ...unless absolutely essential as the nation's very survival is at risk.