Cern and black holes; why the resistance to sustain an honest approach?

Discussion in 'Science' started by Bishadi, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0
    where's the black holes of the cern energies? Colapse?

    both modeled paths are complete waste of resources, why so much resistance?

    how many here have actually gone thru the math of both models?

    Please share that both have flaws, so these posters can experience the honest approach.
     
    waltky and (deleted member) like this.
  2. NYCmitch25

    NYCmitch25 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe the black holes are very small and just evaporate. I don't understand your other comments. they are just simulating the Big Bang.
     
  3. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The study combined X-ray images from two telescopes, one old and one new...
    :confusion:
    First glimpse of a black hole's spin
    27 February 2013 - Astronomers have measured the rate of spin of a supermassive black hole for the first time - and it is big.
     
  4. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,176
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Exactly what models are you referring to? There are thousands of models being tested at CERN, could you be a bit more specific?
     
  5. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Probably compacted debris the black hole has 'swallowed'...
    :cool:
    Researchers find 'structure' in black hole accretion disk
    March 1, 2013 —A team of researchers working at the Astrophysical Institute of the Canary Islands has found evidence of a previously unknown structure in the accretion disk of a black hole that is part of an X-ray binary system. The structure, as they describe in their paper published in the journal Science, presents itself with a wave like movement through the disk, moving outward.
     
  6. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0
    energy is not based on speed


    the MORONS that do not comprehend that, are still morons!
     
  7. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It would seem you either have advanced understanding of the energies involved in Particle Physics and Gravitational theory far and above the basics we meager enthusiasts understand.

    ~OR~

    You read something neat, are attempting to seem to be all smart and stuff, but have a limited ability to express yourself in writing.

    Until you manage to explain which modeling you are asking someone to provide data on....you are wasting server space.
     
  8. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,176
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Cannot stress this enough. Bishadi does have a tendency to rant on about things he has shown no knowledge in.
     
  9. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Understood...
     
  10. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,857
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Trophy Points:
    113
    he gave a rather rude response to your question...hardly the right approach when attempting to start a civil dialogue...
     
  11. Herby

    Herby Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Energy only has any importance because it's conserved during physical interactions. Energy is solely based on conservation and definitely not on speed. There's only one reason speed plays a role when it comes to energy. It turned out to be necessary to be included such that energy is indeed a conserved quantity under, for example, the electromagnetic interaction.

    If you dislike the definition of energy, we could also define any other scalar, let's call it the Bishadi. Such a definition can be made in infinitely many ways, but most well-defined scalars lack a useful property like the conservation of energy. Even conservation itself isn't sufficient or required to be useful. For example, you could define the Bishadi B = 0. Obviously, that's a conserved quantity under all circumstances, but it has no utility at all.

    If you dislike the pragmatic "it's useful because it's conserved" approach to energy, there is another way to look at it. Noether's theorem states that the conservation laws have a one-to-one relationship with symmetries of the physical system. For example, momentum and the symmetry of translation in space are related or energy and the translation in time. The math behind it isn't as simple as I'd like it to be, but nevertheless, it's quite a deep and beautiful statement if you think about it.
     
  12. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0
    please. re read that statement. It's 'bout stupid!

    Only?

    Without the 'energy' you would not be alive.

    The rocks aint rolling by accident and that comprehension, is based on being 'conserved' to any system.

    to you, the conservation aspect is the reason to measure it.

    to me, the energy state is a part of the cause (all cases), that must be measure. (see lavoisier)
    that is another word salad.

    The 'interaction' is described by measuring of the system, but the electromagnetic 'energy' is the state to measure, before the interaction. The interaction affects the energy.

    Your concept of energy is based on the systems differences and why the conservation aspect is the scaling to the interactions. But to conserve then the energy 'state' exist, prior to the interaction and then at impacts (per se) of fields and mass, share a combined output to measure, sustaining all conservation, revealing its 'evolution' (change of energy/state)

    that is what i claim about the current model. the fools dont sustain the energy to exist prior to the measurement of the system.

    It is almost as if people believe that there is a vacuum, when it is impossible to exist. There is not point A of no energy. ie... the stupid model, aint me sustaining a conservation, is the morons are not comprehending the energy is a state (em) of itself, upon mass. (like a life in itself, resonating)

    and why the logic of the 'steam engine era' still exists as the focal paradigm. If you cant convert a state to a usable product (heat), then it is almost like it dont exist to the physics.

    For example: entanglement is a property of em, that is proven to exist, but it is anywhere in the physics of the big bang or any virial (mathematical) theorem describing of nature? My point, some items are left out based on the lack of conservation to the physics
     
  13. darckriver

    darckriver New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    7,773
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Entanglement is than an em (photon entanglement) phenomena. It's been observed in even fairly large massive objects (molecules, for example). Anything that separates out of an interaction from a single quantum state is entangled. Electrons can be entangled. Etc... And the effect has been observe to occur even when the measurements between each partner of an entangled pair are timed such that it would require a signal traveling thousands of times the speed of light for the information to travel between the pair. Of course, entanglement is almost certainly an instantaneous process where the entangled partners aren't REALLY two separate entities. But experimentally proving that it's "instantaneous" is most likely impossible owing to the relativity of simultaneity and the practical limitations that places upon measurement synchronization.
     
  14. darckriver

    darckriver New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    7,773
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nothing like omitting the most important ingredient in the stew. The first sentence in my previous post comment left out the word MORE. It's rather important, eh? LoL
     
  15. Ctrl

    Ctrl Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    25,745
    Likes Received:
    1,944
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't understand any of this (*)(*)(*)(*). I would like to preface with that. I am a clever enough guy, but this is simply beyond my understanding at my age with my background... which has some distinction, but clearly not here.

    What I do know are people. I know bull(*)(*)(*)(*)ters. I understand the resistance to Bishadi... however, while I cannot speak to the credibility of his theories, and seeming obsession with entanglement... I can speak to the crediblity and method of debate against him... and he comes off more Tesla than Margot.

    Thanks to darckriver for approaching this appropriately.

    I will sit back and google now.
     
  16. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0
    tesla was the good guy and edison was an sob

    I have been right the whole time

    but some just are to stupid to get past their ego.

    Nice to see a driver, put the dark to ya. Made ya think!

    Imagine if you had listened when i first showed up on this site
     
  17. darckriver

    darckriver New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Messages:
    7,773
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tesla was the good guy, indeed! It's a good thing that Westinghouse thought so too.

    LOL! Now there's an interesting combination of statements.
     
  18. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What happened to the debris it ingested, where did it go?...
    :confusion:
    Black hole caught napping after meal
    12 June 2013 > A black hole 11 million light-years away has gone dormant, a decade after being spotted consuming cosmic debris.
     
  19. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It probably cleared a swath and will await the next batch as the Galaxy spins......


    Or it is full, and is taking a nap
     
  20. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0
    was I on the pooper?
     
  21. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0
    :alcoholic:
    would that be like saying "getting Big Banged was phenomenal"

    for example these words are entangling mass


    no such thing as an electron that is not entangled to a proton. So that one is dead

    again, that breaks the planck (funny how evidence represents the current beliefs are like an enema with coffee)

    the math shares a t<0

    but you can use big words if you like
     
  22. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0
    so is it the mass as the cause of the continuing assembly or the energy?


    remember, wavelengths of EM, evolve

    bet you have a nice new monitor!
     
  23. NYCmitch25

    NYCmitch25 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Well really this is key:

    Microscopic black holes (CERN Website)

    "Nature forms black holes when certain stars, much larger than our Sun, collapse on themselves at the end of their lives. They concentrate a very large amount of matter in a very small space. Speculations about microscopic black holes at the LHC refer to particles produced in the collisions of pairs of protons, each of which has an energy comparable to that of a mosquito in flight. Astronomical black holes are much heavier than anything that could be produced at the LHC."
     
  24. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,292
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Black holes dont exist in the mannerism (physics) that are speculated.

    Basic. The protons they borrow to spin, after removing the electrons comes from about a 4' x 8" cylinder of hydrogen. No one made a black hole. None have been seen.


    but SPECULATION is what people do to sustain 15billion in funding.

    What i crack up on is the reality of the matter. What the f'''ck has cern produced for mankind with the physics you like in the black hole?

    space dont bend. Eddington was evidencing a mirage, which we all can reproduce. And any proton with added energy (em fields) will spin, and disappear, just like they have for the last whole week.

    The is the work that I do for a living. Which is always checking up on evidence. I like to do the math and note the velocities, which like hawking said, willl still not combine for a higgy, bigggy, godddy, black holeeee, black matter, or simply to be the dark sheeeeeet that idiots now need to add too the universal matter to make the cosmological model even remotely work in the simulations.


    Try an approach; Walking the Planck is for idiots. WE are in a paradigm shift and I so happen to be right in the middle of it.



    Boo
     

Share This Page