Question: Will Humanity Ever Get IT?

Discussion in 'Science' started by NYCmitch25, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Hafez

    Hafez Banned

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    the problems of today are trivial. We as a species are in fact really really good at addressing problems that threaten our existence. So much so that we have become the dominant force on the planet in a very short period of time. These problems you speak of are nothing, problems in the future such as information density potentially destroying all life in a black hole are what scientist are considering now.
     
  2. NYCmitch25

    NYCmitch25 New Member

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    Please by all means, explain some real species threatening scenarios which have been truly resolved by human intervention? Name one!? You are mistakenly equating, with great hubris, that human intelligence inheriently infers a species success story. Look at the Sauropods for example, lived on the planet 15 million years, brains the size of a golf balls. They would be considered a greater success story. Or even worse, microbes have been on the planet for 3.6Billion years, no brains. We may never make as far as 15 million, maybe not even a 1000 years. We are choking the planet with our waste and denying it, we can't even solve our own self-created problems yet. We have been clever enough to build things like mass destruction devices but are most likely not clever enough to never use them. This is a call for action. Say the chances of a nuclear destruction is 1/1000 I think that that means over 100 years those odds drop to 1/10! Hence, our intelligence could potentially work against us, something you've never considered. Ironically, proving my point all along.



    :salute:
     
  3. NYCmitch25

    NYCmitch25 New Member

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    No no no, I agree with you entirely! Good post btw, the most ideal scenario would be to clean up our own beautiful back yard. I'm looking way beyond that and seeing a future that MUST require space travel. It is the only natural progression, TV makes that look easy, we are at least 2000 years away from that kind of progress in my opinion. We may not make it for another 1000. If you really calculate the odds, this would be a more serious issue then we would like to admit.
     
  4. NYCmitch25

    NYCmitch25 New Member

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    I get it, but you are really more on point and taking a smaller angle here. That is a retrograde attitude, sure we can do that but it's not going to be enough, which side of the next "KT barrier" do you want to be on?

    - - - Updated - - -


    I get it, but you are really more on point and taking a smaller angle here. That is a retrograde attitude, sure we can do that but it's not going to be enough, which side of the next "KT barrier" do you want to be on?
     
  5. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    no other species has been able to terraform to the extent we can. it's just a matter of will and funding to change the course of a river and turn desert into a garden.
     
  6. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    and man can make babies from virgins (no intercourse): test tube babies


    We are the creators of these posts
     
  7. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    humanity imo is the asteroid equivalent of an extinction event...we have a chance to prevent it but failing to do that we will not survive it...
     
  8. Hafez

    Hafez Banned

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    We have only been around 150k years and we have already dwarfed any achievements any life on earth has made since the formation of our planet. We unlike all the others you mentioned have the tools in intelligence to not only identify problems which others could not, but in doing so we can seek to remedy such problems. These problems of nuclear weapons and pollution are not an insurmountable issue, and even they are not kt level events. You speak of humans like the typical liberal as a virus on he planet, but what you fail to realize is that everything we do is done naturally and within the laws of our universe. We are engines of creation and destruction, not single cell automatons. Yes we can go extinct but perhaps many other far greater civilizations have as well. You give us far less credit than we deserve because you dwell in fear. We have so many advances in technology that promises great things ahead. While we will undoubtably uncover new threats to our existence in our quest for knowledge we must always regard these threats as an acceptable part of the equation of life. For every action there is a reaction and by simply evolving higher levels of self reflection we are armed with the knowledge of foresight, and knowing is half the battle.
     
  9. Zo0tie

    Zo0tie New Member

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    I see as space colonization as the icing on the cake. Something we will do once we have gotten our act together here. The very skills we need to keep the earth a pleasant and beautiful habitat are the same skills we'll need to build and maintain space habitats. It's not just technology. The way we deal with each other and the way we relate to our environment whether natural or artificial is critical for success or failure of our efforts. We always have to be aware of our capacity for self delusion and denial of common sense. It's really amusing and a little sad that so many space colonization enthusiasts are at the same time so unconcerned about population control or repair and preservation of the earths ecosystem. They seem to think that ravaging the earth to build some big fleet of rockets to go elsewhere is the answer to restrictions on personal freedom. That in space we'll all be free, free, free! They totally ignore the reality of the lethal environment of space. That a people who would spend centuries of dedicated time and generations of tedious effort to terraform a planet are going to tolerate some 'free' idiot chopping down a single tree of a forest that took hundreds of years to grow.
     
  10. NYCmitch25

    NYCmitch25 New Member

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    Well, we've been evolving for over 6 million years but I understand that it's a point about exponential growth in such a short period of geological time. Though this is also not a matter of "dwelling in fear" like some kind of "environmentalist liberal" on my part, but a matter of seeing our failures which we are yet address even on the most basic level. We assume it all on other generations, and we see this in everything from our economy down to our unwillingness to even floss.

    No the dinosaurs didn't have a World Trade Center, but neither did they have it knocked down on them either. Hence, You are missing the point about Nukes and pollution, these are man made hazards directly related to our intelligence. No they were not armed with the capability to eventually devise a way to find and remove asteroids from Earth's path, but will we ever reach that lofty goal? I don't see that simply since we have guns, credit cards, and 3d movies we are somehow better positioned dogmatically to last longer on the planet than the dinosaurs. My point is not that "all is lost" but "are we ready for the next step?" Will we actualize our potential? Is humanity really ready to take that step past the singularity? It is with great hubris to see that 99.9% of all higher life to have ever existed on Earth has become extinct and not contemplate our chances. So right now, out of all of the threats that have wiped out a species, how many are we prepared for? I can only think of a small few.
     
  11. Hafez

    Hafez Banned

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    Who has time to floss? We are spiritual beings finally able to manifest form. It takes a lot of energy to maintain this form, it devours us and brings us closer to the infinity we seek. But this energy we must expend to even be here gives us precious little perceived time to floss. We live for the present because it is what we experience.
     
  12. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    the alvarez gang (father-son) were wrong on the asteroid theory

    read from Gerta Keller

    But Princeton professor Gerta Keller wasn't convinced. She has her own theories about the mass extinction.

    "Vulcanism has played a major role," Keller says.

    In the hundreds of thousands of years before the Chicxulub impact, volcanoes in a region of India known as the Deccan Traps erupted repeatedly. They spewed sulfur and carbon dioxide, poisoning the atmosphere and destabilizing ecosystems. Keller says the dinosaurs were already on death's door by the time the asteroid hit.

    And there is confusion about when that actually happened.

    "If [the impact] is the cause, it had to be precisely at the time of the mass extinction," Keller says. "It can't be before and it can't be afterwards."


    Geochronologist Paul Renne collects 66-million-year-old volcanic ash from a coal bed near Hell Creek, Mont.Enlarge image



    Geochronologist Paul Renne collects 66-million-year-old volcanic ash from a coal bed near Hell Creek, Mont.
    Courtesy of Courtney Sprain

    Geochronologist Paul Renne collects 66-million-year-old volcanic ash from a coal bed near Hell Creek, Mont.





    Keller's data suggest that the impact happened about 100,000 years before the mass extinction. Previous studies, on the other hand, put it 180,000 years after the dinosaurs died off.
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Humanity in one form or another in all our states of Evolutionary development goes back around 5 Million Years and about 200,000 years ago we can see in the fossil records the beginning of Modern Man's physiological evolution. As far as Modern Man...of which our ancestors...Cro-Magnon...are a part of...the fossil records show Cro-Magnon to exist as far back as between 27,000 to perhaps 100,000 years ago.

    Now Cro-Magnon were almost IDENTICAL to Homo sapiens and if a Cro-Magnon man was in a police lineup with say...7 other Homo sapiens...a person trying to identify which person was Cro-Magnon would have a close to impossible job.

    Given all this being that Cro-Magnon is considered part of Modern Humans...and that Cro-Magnon had been around perhaps as long ago as 100,000 years and for certain around 60,000 years ago...this means Humans have gone through several EXTINCTION LEVEL EVENTS as a species.

    Humans survived the last Ice Age and have survived Magnetic Pole Shifts, Solar Flare and Cosmic Ray Events, Volcanism, Plagues, Floods, Climate Changes...you name it...and Humanity has survived. It would take an event of World Ending proportions to kill off Humanity given our now technical prowess.

    The thing is...the Planet is a self correcting system. Many times in it's history Earth has endured and bounced back from major extinction level events and so has Humanity. It would be nice if the next ELE was not man made as in just 10 to 15 years there will no longer be a Northern Polar Sea Ice Pack.

    More energy introducing into a system...such as Earth's climate and temp. conveyor belt that is the Gulf Stream and other ocean and air currents...the bigger and bigger the storms until we start getting Cat. 6 and 7 Hurricanes and Tornado's at EF-6 and above.

    AboveAlpha
     
  14. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    wrong? ahh that's quite a claim for to make, not even Keller made that claim...

    the accepted theory is it was an asteroid impact until that changes it's not wrong...

    NO dinosaur fossils have ever been found from after/above the KT boundary, none...

    find that post KT dino fossil and a Nobel may await you or Keller...
     
  15. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    solid work

    look for Ronald Wilson in souther California...... you would be shocked to meet him as he is a walking cro mag

    The pole reversals are normal. he sun reverses about every 11 yrs. Mankind has not recorded surviving a earth pole shift, that I know of. If we are truly within the field anomalies we could be capturing huge increases of energy from the solar winds. (just food for thought)

    As for a manmade extinction, I believe that the closest we will ever get will be a nuke war but that aint enough for an extinction just perhaps a 'reboot'.


    What I am happy to sustain, is eve if the idiot do the war, the knowledge, most important for our survival, will still be here for the most part.

    I hope you like Taos
     
  16. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    I am a bit more direct in noting an error to a model, while she has a tenure to protect
    to you!

    I read beyond what is accepted just as Pluto will always be a planet, to me.

    u accept, while I like to learn.

    I have known of gerta for decades and I like reading her material because like most GOOD scientists, she is primarily in it for the knowledge, not a nobel or prizes that make you so happy and proud.
     
  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    :thumbsup: Yes, they very well could. That's one neat thing about science fiction (and fantasy) - you see both the best and the worst qualities of humanity portrayed in very vivid ways. Another bunch of aliens that do this well are the Psychlo in Battlefield Earth. People love to hate the movie made from that novel, but I loved it when I saw it. The cruel, unfeeling Psychlos are in fact very human in their malice and their indifference to the suffering of what they view as inferior species (and even of each other). Also like the ID4 aliens, they went to various other worlds to harvest resources (gold, anyway) and destroy/enslave the natives.

    I think that existence may prove possible, though, contrary to what you say. It would be a matter of learning to manufacture basic needs without relying so much on the natural ecosystem of Earth, and it may also involve genetically altering ourselves to be more space- & space travel-compatible..
     
  18. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    you're jumping to conclusions not even source claims...why even cite a source if you're claiming to know more...

    which doesn't address my point that no dinosaur fossils have been found above the KT boundary, without that key piece of the puzzle she or rather you because she never made that claim is purely speculative it's has nothing to do with learning it's not even a scientific approach the very opposite of learning...

    from your earlier post..."[U]Vulcanism has played a major role[/U]," Keller says.

    In the hundreds of thousands of years before the Chicxulub impact, volcanoes in a region of India known as the Deccan Traps erupted repeatedly. They spewed sulfur and carbon dioxide, poisoning the atmosphere and destabilizing ecosystems. Keller says the dinosaurs were already on death's door by the time the asteroid hit."

    no where does she claim Alverez was wrong... that's your opinion only...no where does she claim an asteroid did not kill the dinosaurs off...and the Deccan Traps is not anything new this isn't Keller's discovery...
     
  19. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S32/14/62G75/


    I like to read her work

    and you can find her on Youtube as well

    She is one of the 'doers' and you are being a wyly


    .

    Stick to the thread to assist you in finding your feet
     
  20. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Given the 60,000 to 100,000 years in the past that Cro-Magnon was around...it can be said that Modern Man has gone through a Magnetic Pole Shift.

    Yes...Earth's Magnetic Poles do switch for a very short time in a cyclical time period but a complete and total pole shift would be a catastrophic event.

    As far as a Nuclear War...the United States has developed the Free Electron Laser...quite possibly the weapon that will make Nuclear War obsolete. A Free Electron Laser will be installed on all U.S. Carriers starting with the CVN-78 Gerald R. Ford and the CVN-79 J.F.K. FEL's will be installed on all Aegis Cruisers as well and this Laser easily penetrates any atmospheric issues as well as this Laser coupled will a Satellite Targeting System can be used against over the horizon targets as well as have Split Beaming abilities to destroy multiple incoming MIRV's released from ICBM's.

    Right now the U.S. Navy has the new SM-3 ABM/ASAT...which was recently demonstrated as a failing U.S. Satellite that was in a decaying orbit proved itself to be a deadly hazard to population centers. This satellite had a full tank of Hydrazine...which is used for boosting the satellite to various orbits. Since this tank would survive reentry...a U.S. SM-3 ABM/ASAT...was launched off a U.S. Navy ship in the Pacific and this missile successfully targeted and destroyed the Hydrazine Tank on this satellite with a DIRECT HIT.

    It is one thing to shoot down a satellite and it is quite another thing to be able to hit and destroy a tank upon a satellite traveling 16,000 to 18,000 miles per hour at Orbital Distances.

    The reality is the ability of the U.S. Military and U.S. Space Command to destroy incoming ICBM's and even destroy individual MIRV's carried by ICBM's as well as easily destroy any Bomber Aircraft of any nation using the SM-3's and FEL...Free Electron Laser...is VASTLY understated.

    This is why I get a good chuckle every time I hear that NUT in North Korea declare he will destroy the U.S. or territories of the U.S. with ICBM's. LOL! North Korea can't even get a Nuclear Warhead on their obsolete and technically inferior missiles never mind actually hit a target! LOL!

    North Korea has yet been able to hit a target that they have set forth as every single missile test they have held has missed it's target by a wide margin.

    So as far as Nuclear War....HIGHLY UNLIKELY. Even if by some chance a country such as Iran or a Terrorist Group that got it's hands on a Nuke was to get it into the U.S. by ship or container cargo...and this is a SLIM possibility as U.S. Radiation Detection is Highly Advanced as recently the U.K. asked the United States for help monitoring any possible Nuclear threat to the London Olympics.

    In the joint operations U.S. Personal operated these detection units that were upon Land, Sea, Air and Space and these are all mobile. The U.S. Radiation Detection system is so sensitive it was able to detect and track such things as Radioactive Medical Supplies and Medicines...Radioactive Clothing which was used by Hospitals and various other companies and agencies that deal with Radioactive materials.

    It is even whispered that part of this U.S. System can detect Fissile Material that has been encased in LEAD! The way this is done is that any material including Lead when being bombarded by Neutron Decay inside the container cause a change in the Quantum Vibrationary State of the Material or in this case Lead.

    The exact details of this detection ability are Highly Classified but if this is a reality it would mean the U.S. can track even shielded Radioactive Material anywhere anytime.

    Given all these realities it is hard to see a major country attempting to start a Nuclear War as Russia, China, Britain, France, the United States...being the 5 major Nuclear Armed countries are in no way stupid enough to start such a war.

    Pakistan, India, Iran, North Korea and perhaps a former Soviet State that has sold a Nuke to some Group are countries and entities that could start a limited Nuclear War but given the Supremacy of the United States and Russia such a war would be contained either by threats or by actual actions.

    One area that the United States is alone in weapons development that could effect Humanity on a Global Level is the U.S. Military's Space Based Kinetic Strike Weapon. One name for this is Rods from God...a term given to this type of system in a Tom Clancy Novel.

    Basically...a telephone pole sized missile which is made of Depleted Uranium surrounded by Tungsten Steel with a Ceramic exterior which protects the interior of this missile upon reentry...is released from a satellite and a small rocket motor on one end of this missile fires for a short time to position the missile for reentry to then strike a target.

    This missile will obtain velocities over 18,000 miles per hour and it is said it may strike a target anywhere from 18,000 to 28,000 miles per hour. At such a velocity this telephone pole sized missile of depleted uranium and tungsten steel will strike the target upon Earth causing an impact explosion equal to a NUCLEAR WEAPON.

    It has been whispered that if IRAN or NORTH KOREA were to attempt any Nuclear Blackmail...never mind an actal nuclear attack...the United States would target Nuclear Sites within such countries and even a site deep underground could not survive this level of impact and force.

    This U.S. response would allow the destruction of such Nuclear Sites but do so without the deadly release of Radiation specific to a Nuclear Blast. Since destroying such targets that have Radioactive Materials would pose a danger to any nearby populace...this Kinetic Kill system could be made to collapse such underground sites. However above ground Nuclear sites would not pose the same opportunity.

    Anyway we look at this I think it would be highly unlikely a full scale nuclear war will take place as new tech. and new systems are getting away from nuclear options as it is now possible to get close to or the same destructive results using non-nuclear weapon systems.

    AboveAlpha
     
  21. NYCmitch25

    NYCmitch25 New Member

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    Um, Cro-magnons are just the humans which lived along side the Neanderthals. All of the stuff you are so proud we survived. Pales in comparison to other species.
     
  22. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    there's only only person being a willy here a little maturity is required on your part...no dinosaur fossil was ever found above the KT Boundary...

    every link you post from keller repeats the same agreed fact, the asteroid impact ended the dinosaurs...you're lack of objectivity blinds you to what is actually said...
     
  23. NYCmitch25

    NYCmitch25 New Member

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    Interesting way to think about it. But really, that is potentially the case on some level. I think of it like "specialization", you know like the Sabor tooth cat or the terror bird or megladons; why were such huge apex preditors wiped out? They probably became too specialized in many cases ..
     
  24. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    First of all...I am stating realities...I am neither proud or ashamed of these facts.

    Secondly...yes...Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons did for a time live along side each other. Neanderthals were around first but both species of humanity came from the same common ancestor.

    Neanderthal proved to be a dead end as their bodies were evolved to live during an Ice Age...short arms and legs...a lot of hair...round stocky mid section.

    As to why Neanderthals died off...probably a combination of their physiology and being killed off by Cro-Magnon.

    So...what exactly is your point in bringing up these two species of humanity for a time lived on earth together?

    AboveAlpha
     
  25. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    ya could be...there is a flowering tree in the Andes and the flowers are so unusually shaped only a single specie of hummingbird with a uniquely shaped beak can pollinate it, if the tree dies the hummingbird starves into extinction, if the hummingbird dies the tree can no longer pollinate and it becomes extinct...extreme over specialization...

    another cause of extinction, size...when a catastrophic event occurs like climate change the biggest animals die, starvation, tiny scavengers survive...with the KT extinction no large land animals survived and probably no large sea animals either...
     

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