Why are many libertarians so brainwashed?

You obviously do because you demean libertarians on the basis that we aren't a majority or prominent minority, as if it's just self-evident we're crazy...because you say so, because we aren't a majority or popular minority. See the circular logic? You don't make sense. Furthermore, statists gon' state, because you are seemingly incapable of questioning the status quo. Cult belief or not, we have a consistent basis for policy, unlike the extremely inconsistent political parties you place so much faith in. Moderates are even worse though, because if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.

 

That's not the basis for my reasoning. It's evidence to back my reasoning. I don't think you guys are crazy because only 1% of the population agrees with you. I think you are crazy because you have crazy ideas and I use the evidence that only 1% agree with you guys to back up my claim that I'm not the only one that thinks you guys are crazy.

 

Uh no, I want to apply libertarian principles to every situation involving political interactions, ie. where the police powers of the state may be rightfully used. How you deal with your personal issues is up to you. Don't like you wife cheating on you? Divorce her. That doesn't mean that it's right to put her in a jail cell for violating a legislative decree against adultery.

I didn't realize that you have a right to be free of negative consequences. Libertarians, unlike you, apparently, don't consider themselves entitled to benefits at the expense of others just because they want them.

What is paranoid about believing that it's wrong to use force against peaceful people?

Any small movement, especially ones that are welcoming, tend to attract the lunatic fringe. It really can't be helped. Still, I will happily welcome a peaceful crazy person over a person who has no idea what his principles are and subscribes to violence against peaceful people if it benefits him.

 

You, the majority, are very similar to 1930's German citizens - the one thing that pushed them over the edge more than anything else was economic calamity... which we are well on our way to now, b/c you, the majority, can't do math, and simply don't know any better.

Once that hits, and after the predictable period of chaos - we will be a mirror image Hitler's regime, only instead of Jews being rounded up, libertarians and other "radicals" will be the target.

You believe many of the same things the German people did that allowed Hitler to seize total control - not the least of which is positive government itself.

The Nazi's were socialists - Amerikans are socialists.
The German people believed in positive government - you believe in positive government.
The German people were willing to exhange freedom for "security" - you are willing to exhange freedom for "security".
The German people were willing to exhange freedom, for "a chicken in every pot" - you are willing to do so as well.
Hitler used terrorism as an excuse to expand centalized police power - Amerikans accepted the same nonsense from our ruling elites when they passed The Patriot Act and NDAA. Which of course gutted The Bill of Rights.

In just 4 years our Federal debts will total somewhere around $174 trillion - and that doesn't even include Obamacare, and the blue states inability to do math.

Once the economic collapse is triggered - you will blindly follow wherever your beloved socialist, central government misleads you - just as the German people did in the 1930's.

 

The economy is nothing like 1930's Germany. Complete fabrication on your part

No, you'll be fine. No one is plotting to cleanse you guys from the population, lol.

I believe very little of the same things that the German people believed.

Our Federal debts will not total around $174 trillion. You are including unfunded liabilities to some ridiculous time frame. We'll be fine

We just had an economic collapse and no one rounded people up for mass executions. You will be fine. You spending too much time listening to your fellow fear mongering Libertarian friends, lol.

Reread what you just wrote. This is nut job paranoia talk.

 

lol... we didn't have an economic collapse - we had indigestion. When collapse gets here, you'll know it.

And the "ridiculous" time frame for that charming $174 trillion number?? Is just 4 years hence.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/current-rates.html

What do you think will happen when Amerikans discover that their Medicare, Social Security, and Prescription drug benefits are not there??

Debt = $23 trillion
Social Security = $20 trillion
Prescription Drugs = $26 trillion
Medicare = $105 trillion

That = $174 trillion - in just 4 years

Nice job my socialist friend... and since you believe in positive government - that is all you need believe in common with Nazi era Germans. Unconstrained governments kill - that is History 101. We now have a completely unconstrained government - it is only a matter of time.

 

What do you think will happen when Americans discover that their Medicare, Social Security, and Prescription drug benefits are still there?

Lol, are you afraid of large numbers or something?

You are talking about an economic collapse, about us becoming Nazi's, etc. You wonder why I call you guys extremist fear mongerers, lol.

The funny thing is you guys have been calling for the destruction of America for decades and you are always wrong. Better keep stocking up on canned goods and ammo, the Apocalypse is coming!!!

 

You may have more information, but you have fewer principles, That's the point. Without principles, everything becomes a utilitarian game of "good enough reason". Utilitarianism is exactly what you're arguing for -- which throws the very notion of inalienable rights out the window. They cannot exist in a utilitarian universe because utilitarianism does not admit the existence of inalienable anything. If your free speech is in the way of Utopia, you are to be forced to shut up, because the goal is not to treat human beings as ends in themselves, but as a means to the end of a "happy" society. If you're in the way, too bad, change, move, but you don't have the right to interfere.

Kant put it this way:

So if you put this into politics, you'd have to ask first what would happen if everybody acted the same way as the government wants to. What if I listened to people's phone calls or rifled through your papers? I'd certainly not be treating you as a person with his own goals and the right to be left alone. You'd probably punch me in the face if you caught me doing that. So it fails as a moral thing to do, and I don't get to do that.

 

Amerikans don't have "more information" on the things that matter to a stable society and sound governance.

They have more information presented to them in the government indoctrination centers on subjects like chemistry, math, physics, atronomy, geology, biology, etc; but they have far less information presented to them on history, civics, governmental systems, etc, i.e. anything that would actually help them be able to govern themselves, and keep their government constrained and under control.

Most Amerikans think democracy is a fine form of government, and that the government can, and should do anything "they the people" demand. Only an ignorant population would think such things.

Of course they've been deliberately dumbed - they've been deliberately denied exposure to history and the principles of freedom.

 

Like all areas, libertarians get stereotyped. I think there is a certain level of government that is good. We need regulations that make sure the food we eat won't kill us. We need regulations on the road to help reduce the driving deaths. What we don't need is Mayor Bloomberg telling us our soda is too big. Does anyone here not see the difference? Just because some regulation is ok...........does not mean ALL regulation is ok. It's the same thing with guns. I am totally pro-gun, but I also believe we have to regulate that right to a certain extent. HOWEVER.........there are people who love to say "you can't yell Fire in a crowded theater"...........what those people really mean is "since there is one regulation on the 1st Amendment, we can regulate the crap out of the 2nd Amendment. If they were honest, they would say, "just like you can't yell fire in a crowded theater, you can't purchase guns below a certain age or carry them certain places"........as both amendments have their regulations.

 

The poster directly above you sees your desire to use government to regulate food and road safety as "evil democracy" and "the slippery slope to Nazi tyranny." He is the reason that libertarians get (righteously) stereotyped.

 

When a libertarian calls you a socialist for having beliefs which many classical liberals shared that's when you know he's brainwashed with royal libertarian propaganda. Sadly, that's most of them from what I've seen.

 

The paid Manchurian spokesman, who has accused others in the past of being on the dole, is now trying to deflect attention away from the obvious Manchurian influences upon the Democratic party?

 

I don't even take the religious right seriously without serious tax rates to meet an allegedly serious exigency.

 

The ultimate Manchurian enters the debate. Can you speak out of "brainwashed mode" or are we confined to commentary defined by Obama?

 

i know, individualism and independence. so crazy. didn't some guys have a war about that once?

 

Heh, maybe we should let them get on with it and eventually everyone would realize the problems and never return! (right their own ship as you say)

 

Leftists are parasitic by nature - California's pension crisis is a good example.

If our Federal Republic were still functioning, CA would be forced to "right their own ship", but they know they will never need to. For years they've been cooking their own books, i.e. they've been lying to anyone who will believe them - actuaries have forced them to face reality to whatever extent though, so they've moved on to victimizing the public at large in different ways - i.e. "public 401K's".

It's set up so that every CA worker will be enrolled in a "public 401K" - unless they specifically opt out. Then every 2 years they will again be automatically enrolled, unless they specifically opt out. It is a dragnet that is designed to catch citizens unaware - and once they are enrolled, those "public 401K" monies can be looted to make flush the retirement and other benefits of their #1 special interest - the government worker unions.

Their nature is always to look to "other peoples money".

Of course they are steadily stealing from the national treasury as well. Eventually they will no longer be able to rearrange the deck chairs on their sinking ship... the cry will be "too big to fail", and huge gobs of money will then be pilfered from the national treasury.

I guess maybe the city of Detroit isn't as well connected, lol... I know their city council reps have been saying they're entitled to federal money - reasoning they voted for Obama, now he has to pay them off. Last I heard though, they were simply planning on stiffing bond investors at 10 cents on the $1.

 

Yep, shorting everyone who believed in the city and bought bonds, and the union workers are not giving up any of their unfunded retirements. "Let the people pay" mentality.

 

I don't have what people would call "politics". I have personal ethics. I live by the non-aggression axiom because I view it as the purest expression of liberty.

If you want to go around initiating force against others you're welcome to, but I will not. You can limit my available decisions through coercion, but of those remaining I will always choose the option most congruent with liberty. This is entirely out of your, or anyone else's control. I make my own decisions.

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I think you'll find all people have a personal ethic that defines themselves; be it God, consequentialism, egoism, whatever.

 

LOL... we can certainly agree on that. He's pretty out there. I once read a book of his, found it on a plane. Wow. Just WOW.

 

Of course this game has a expiration date - contrary to what our ethically and mathmatically challenged friend akphidelt2007 says, countries can and do go belly-up.

The unfunded liabilities aren't as big an issue as the debt itself - those will just lead to social unrest and discontent. Don't know what kind of "riot" you can get off the ground when the average age of the rioters would be 80, lol...

The debt on the other hand will sink us... we have to pay interest on that debt, there is no end in sight to our borrowing, our credit rating will continue to decline, and our friends at the FedRes who control everything will eventually raise interest rates. I don't know how they'll trigger the collapse - they could do it in any number of ways, but collapse the system they will.

Collapse makes perfect sense if you understand the goals of the international bankers and the that Establishment that rules over the U.S. and Europe... I've been aware that the debt would be run up, and that collapsing the previous system was an intermediary goal for 30 years now.

The only thing that has surpised me a little bit, is that it has been accomplished much faster. That said, as they've made more and more progress each year, I do see why they have been able to faster - a lot of planning and preperation goes into something like that.

Even the much more modest 1929 stock market crash, which wasn't a collapse, took several years to engineer and prepare. We're getting there though. I look at the debt clock run-up as a countdown - I just don't what the blast-off number will be.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/current-rates.html

$23 trillion in just 4 years... I think they can float for as long as they like, but as I've said, the jig will eventually be up.

 

[video=youtube;AiBCRQL58_k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiBCRQL58_k[/video]

This WR Grace commerical was made in 1986 when the debt was at $2 trillion (the good ol' days) - and predicably banned on the networks. The networks of course are controlled by the Establishment.

An ignorant population is a happy population... what they don't know won't hurt 'em, huh

 

It's just the more educated people get the more silly your guys ancient ideologies sound.

 

What do you mean by educated? Governments don't teach jack about real history.