I will tell you what. Why don't you Google the Russian Military's own assessment of it's Main Battle Tanks performance against the U.S. M1A1 and M1A2 Abrams? mod edit>>>insult AboveAlpha
Here is a report from RIANOVOSTI. LINK....http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20110315/163016351.html This details Russia's Military stating their tanks are INFERIOR. AboveAlpha
"The most advanced weapon systems manufactured for Russia's ground forces are below NATO and even Chinese(sic!) standards and are expensive, GF chief Col. Gen. Alexander Postnikov said on Tuesday." That is, in fact, typical fearmongering for more funds. Not a proof at all. A good indicator of fearmongering is a big amount of BS in the article, like the following: "It would be easier for us to buy three Leopards [Germany's main battle tanks] with this money," Postnikov said Taking into account, that second-hand Leopard 2 costs ~8 million$ that is pure BS. Give me a research or tests results, something scientific, then we shall discuss it.
Here is a GRU report detailing the poor performance of Russian Troops and Tanks in Chechnya. LINK...http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/yrusfail/yrusfail.htm Now this was the Russian Military fighting a bunch of VILLAGERS...never mind the U.S. Military! LOL! AboveAlpha
Another epic fail. Russia won in Chechnya. ALSO THIS IS NOT A GRU REPORT. This one was done by by MAJ Raymond C. Finch, III Foreign Military Studies Office, Fort Leavenworth, KS. You, BelowOmega, are a lier. Wanna talk about mighty US army getting it's ass kicked in Afghanistan or Somalia? Give me a link, which proves that modern Russian tanks cant penetrate Abrams. You have last try left, kid. If you won't I will accept your surrender.
So what? Russians have the same systems. So you're saying 'very single conflict'. I know a single conflict in Vietnam where american soldiers were using AK. Fighting people like very much a RPG-7 outclassed weapon. US Army keeps buing russian helicopters for Afghanistan. Why not to buy them from the own military industry? As to Braedly don't even talk about it.! You sound funny. A crap out of craps.
Well the Russian GRU Report I posted a LINK to a few of my posts back doesn't agree with you. The GRU report states that a total rethinking of Russian Troop Training as well as upgrading outdated Russian Equipment and Weapons is needed to prevent the Russian Military into turning into that of a 3rd World Countries Military! LOL! The GRU is the most powerful body overseeing the Russian Military and the GRU states that Russian military performance in Chechnya was a failure upon and at ALL LEVELS and that the Russian Military was an EMBARRASSMENT to the Russian People! It's all right there and there are other links that go into more detail from that one. AboveAlpha
Guys, please lay off the back and forth. It's clear that neither of you are going to agree or admit to being wrong.
Long history of what? We don;t need to site it as it claerly evident that many of your systems step down with regard to the same Russian. This is you who live in dreamland. Tanks. aircrafts, guns, let alone missiles and so on p.s. You keep talking about failure in Chechnya. What do you mean a failure of Chechen warlord sponsored by foreign agencies? Yes, they lost decause there's a very old 1000 years old proverb -don't mess with Russian, Stop tlkinf about differen gadgets that today are likely to produce many countries and don't say silly things!
Look at the history of the after 1945 wars where US military had been licked starting with North Korea and so on. Just toe modestly the line among other nations who contribued in weaponry design not less than your hyped industry!
You know...I don't see a problem with a person being proud of their country or military and you are proud of Russia and that is fine. But instead of talking about the areas in which Russia does have either very good or the best...be it people of skill or a weapon or a program...you are attempting to state that specific Russian Aircraft or Tanks are the best when in fact they are not even close. If you read that Russian GRU report it details all the areas of the Russian Military that are in need of improvement or in some cases the GRU recommend some forms or methods of training and some weapon systems should be OUTRIGHT SCRAPPED. Now I am not saying this...this is the assessment of the GRU. Now when I am talking about the U.S. Military it is not like I am making things up. The things I have stated have proof and I have provided the GRU assessments....the Russian Media interviews of Russian Generals who detail how they are aware that the Russian Military has inferior weapons systems compared to the U.S....and I am stating the History in wars such as Gulf War 1 and 2....Bosnia, Chechnya, Libya...etc...where Russian Weapons were found to be very lacking when brought up against U.S. Weapons. Case in Point....The U.S. F-15 Eagle has NEVER been shot down by another aircraft. NEVER! The F-15 is old....it first flew in the Early 1970's and was designed in the 1960's. Still...to this day it has NEVER been shot down by another aircraft. THAT....say's it all. AboveAlpha
Gru reports? Don't make me laugh! GRU by definition doesn't have to look after this problems. "But instead of talking about the areas in which Russia does have either very good or the best...be it people of skill or a weapon or a program...you are attempting to state that specific Russian Aircraft or Tanks are the best when in fact they are not even close| Very strange position. Your hped tanks don't match. Your last aircrafts begin to pale close to new Russian ones. As to air defence and missiles making I don't want even to talk. The fact . articles and arguments you're pulling out of biased sources. So what;s the problem? A lag in time? Russia has already overcome it! Look about!.
The Pentagon purchased Russian Choppers for the Afghan Military because they are Low Tech. and are better suited for a lower trained force to both fly them and service them. As well...the Afghan Military is already trained in flying these choppers. You are right about the AK in Nam as it is better suited for the rain and mud. But newer M-16 variants are a much better design for use now. As far as Russian Military Equipment... In the Cold War European Theater....Soviet BMP's, T-72's and Artillery were produced in very high numbers. It was known by the Soviets that because of NATO's superiority in High Tech. Military weapons that in order for the Soviets to be able to defeat such systems a 5 to 1 Ratio of Soviet Weapons to NATO Weapons would be required. The Soviets also knew that both the American M1 Abrams Tank and the British Challenger Tank could not be destroyed by a T-72 even if the T-72 was to strike these tanks with a direct hit due to their armor as the Abrams uses Depleted Uranium. Because of this the Soviets designed some very good SHAPED CHARGED ROCKED PROPELLED MUNITIONS which a Soviet Soldier could shoulder fire and as well were light enough to be portable. The Shaped Explosive Charge when striking a specific point....any other point of strike will not destroy an Abrams or Challenger....upon the turret of a Challenger or Abrams would knock out these tanks. But since both the Abram's and Challenger were capable of Firing accurately at High Speeds this did not allow a Soviet Soldier much time or accuracy attempting to destroy these NATO Tanks. As well...the T-72's...have a HAND CRANKED TURRET which a Soviet Tank Crew would have to MANUALLY Hand Crank the turrets attached cannon of the T-72 in order to target a NATO TANK. As well unlike NATO Tanks which have their CREWS loading the cannon...the T-72 has a SELF LOADER and because of this this LOADER takes up much room inside the tank that takes away from allowing Munition Storage and Armor. As well the Abrams has a Computer Targeting System with a Computer Controlled Cannon Stabilizer that allows a Abrams to move quickly all the while no matter what terrain it is driving over the Computer makes certain the cannon is ALWAYS pointing at what is being targeted automatically. Poor Soviet Design had placed the Fuel Tank of their BMP...Personal Carriers on the outside of the back of the vehicle. Because of this even Armor Piercing Small Arms Fire could destroy a Soviet BMP in a ball of flames of burning fuel. AboveAlpha
When Russia invaded Georgia, one of the videos showed some of the invading Russian troops wearing tennis shoes. So they are not the best equipped force in the world. I think if you want to compare Russian and US troops in combat, I think Grozny for the Russians and Fallujah for the US come to mind. They were comparable actions with comparable missions, and I think US forces performed vastly superior.
Fallujah is a sore point of contention for me and some I know as due to POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS....the U.S. Military was held back and not allowed to properly run operations there the way it wanted to. Every time a F#@&%#$ POLITICIAN get's involved with Military operations things go bad. Let's make things clear. If the U.S. Marines and Army were allowed to conduct their operations in Fallujah the way they wanted to there would have not been any issues. They would have cut through the insurgents like a Hot Knife through Butter. AboveAlpha
The reason I used it as a point of comparison though is that Grozny cost the lives of thousands of Russian troops to try to subdue the city. By comparison Fallujah didn't cost near the number of US lives and was a more complete subjugation of the city. I'm not saying it was a perfect operation but when you compare real world operations like that, it was fairly well done. With or without political interference, the Russian's couldn't have done it as successfully.
Well you got that right! LOL! After the Chechnya debacle...Putin was incensed that the Russian Military could be so inept and bungle an operation that a Military such as the U.S. Military would consider EASY. LINK for Russian history of poor performance in Chechnya as well as statements by Russian Military Leadership detailing poor performance as well as decided Military Reforms....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Ground_Forces LINK....http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/22143767/1784158280/name/The+End+of+Eurasia.pdf AboveAlpha
