Facts on Gun Control: It doesn't work.

thanks for proving my case................school's out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

see, again your result are flawed. If we get rid of the guns, the po po will be living in our homes and rounding us up like Jews...................but I forget, that is what the rest of the world, including you, would really love to see....................
once a subject, always a subject.......... love your tyrants and give all in for a return of table scraps and mud huts.

 

Stick to beer, lad. You are doing yourself harm with that stuff!

 

what was your handout today?

 

We already have a supreme law of the land; only gun lovers on the right seem to have the most problem loving their republic as much as they claim to love their guns, on a potentially not for profit basis under our form of Capitalism.

 

Some Jehovah's Witness crap by the supermarket. From you, was it? You ought to take up thinking, kid.

 

Really, when all the other side has is insults and a feigned arrogant superiority, your breath is wasted cause they are actually hunting goats. There is no attempt to respond to your discussion. Look back you'll see. The really nice thing though....think about who has the last laugh.

 

I get a ration of fallacy from the right in almost every thread. I believe we should end the "entitlement mentality" of taking them at their word, without a morals test.

 

You are not looking at all the variables, there may be more laws because of the crime.

 

Let's say there are two people. You and one other. You weight 150 lbs, and the other person weights 200 lbs. You decide to go on a diet.

Well after 5 years, you weight yourself, and you are 180 lbs. The other person who refused to diet, now weights 190 lbs.

You then proclaim that your diet plan works! Because you weight 10 lbs less than the other guy who refused to diet.

While your statement would be factually correct, you do weight 10 lbs less, the problem is you still weight more than you did when you started, while the other guy not on your plan, lost weight from where he started. The only reason you still weight less, is because you weighted much less than the other guy to start with.

Similarly, saying that the UK has a lower rate of "gun violence", or a lower number of "deaths by murder" doesn't mean much when they had a lower "deaths by murder" to begin with.

The real question is, how does the "deaths by murder" compare to before the gun ban? The US had a much higher homicide rate than the UK, long before the UK passed a huge gun ban.

Further, what the uninformed masses of British people want, is largely irrelevant to whether gun control works. The people in Spain, Greece, Portugal were massively proud of their passenger rail service too, that didn't stop it and all the other spending programs from bankrupting the country. Just because drug users love their drugs, doesn't mean it's good for them.

The facts are, that every time a country passes a massive gun ban, or restriction, the crime rate goes up, and by a lot usually.

Further, it always amazes me, that gun control people, focus exclusively on gun crimes. So the number of "Gun related Crimes" declines by half, but rapes, assaults, muggings, stabbings, burglary, and everything else triples. You realize that when criminals know that no one can legally defend themselves, they are then free to stab, mug, assault, and burglarize without worry of being shot? But apparently having this massive increase in crime is ok, so long as they don't shoot anyone.

The UK has only countered this, by drastically increasing enforcement, largely through the use of cameras everywhere in society. By institutionalizing big brother, crime has declined in recent years.

But to me, that's not a worth while trade off. Drastically increase all other crime, only to reduce the chances of a crime with a gun. The point in my view, is to reduce crime period. Clearly gun control hasn't resulted in that. All other statistics that well X crime with gun, have gone down, are not valid arguments, if all other crime without guns, has gone up. That defeats the purpose.

And the idea that private citizens having guns doesn't effect crime, is absolute garbage. In 1992, during the LA riots, Koreans defended their stores with everything from pistols to AR-15 rifles. Their stores were not burned down. Their stores were not looted. Meanwhile thousands of California residents tried to buy guns to defend themselves and their property, and couldn't because of the 10 day waiting period. More than 2,400 stores and property were looted and burned to the ground during the riots.

That's pretty conclusive to me. I have now determined to buy an AR-15 myself.

 

You've bored me already

Britain has a history of low homicide rates. It certainly has a low gun violence rate. You've tried to misrepresent the position of course, like using a tabloid article over burglary rates and pretending it referred to gun-related burglaries.

Already noted that there is no structural break in the data.

Did individualism fail to agree with the pro-gun herd mentality? Shame that!

This is a clear lie.

This is wrong. Most of the analysis refers to crime in general (be it overall crime rates or increase in lethality of crime). You continue to misrepresent, only demonstrating to me that you're poorly read on the subject.

 

BS noted................even the smartest rat lacks common sense..............this is just more baby talk

 

hunting or herding for breeding?

 

you should be honest with them and tell them you and I have already figured out that you want to use extreme force for enforcing decreased coercion. that's only fair to let your opponents what they are arguing against.
Coercion to effect reduced coercion. The only thing that was left to discuss was how many people would have to "coerced"/killed to stabilize "zero coercion" on the general masses........

 

I'm always honest, always adopting an evidence-based approach. You of course have to resort to fibbing about that approach. Do one!

 

no, sir............you stated that's what it would take. There are no alternatives for you.

 

I've referred to a rational reduction in coercion. You've screamed about Mao and Stalin incoherently. You're a good poster child for the gun lobby

 

No problem. I'm going to add you to my ignore list, so that I will never see your boring posts again. You have proven yourself incapable of discussing anything without insults and stupidity.

But I'm letting you know so that you won't be surprised when I never respond to your posts that I don't see. Just FYI.

 

It's amazing isn't it. You pin him down on his own belief system, and then when you point it out to everyone, he just calls you a liar.

 

I think that is a big positive. I have no interest in talking to people who are ignorant of the evidence. Cheers!

 

Interesting. What do they use? Spears and whatnot?

 

Maybe we wouldn't have as many people in prison if the death penalty were exercised more but then you would be railing against me for that, now wouldn't you?

This is why I don't tend to get mired in stats when it comes to guns and crimes and numbers of people in prisons about the world because as others have shown here, stats can be argued in a myriad of ways to come to the conclusion one wants and the question of owning a gun is about individual rights, not a totalitarian regime's idea of safety because of "stats".

For me, it's the simple notion that I have the freedom of owning whatever I want and your freedom doesn't inhibit my freedom from doing so until such a time as I misuse that freedom and face a trial, judged by my peers. Children get shot and now we are all child slayers? Great argument sir. Drop all humanity down to the lowest common denominator to save us from ourselves rather than allow anyone the freedom they deserve to pursue those pesky inalienable rights, such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Andelusion has a point about stats. Heck... let's go off the wall here. While we are taking away every gun in existence, why don't we make women wear more clothes so rapes never happen? Why don't we force something on everyone or force everyone out of something so no one ever gets hurt? It's not the people that are accountable for these lousy crime stats, it's those darn GUNS! It's not the people that are accountable for the rapes, it's those darn CLOTHES, and maybe the women that don't wear enough of them! Why don't we make short round rubber buildings so no kid ever gets placed in a corner to make them feel bad, no one ever bangs their head into a wall and damages it, and no one ever commits suicide by jumping off the roof since street will be so close by and covered with colored gum drops à la Candyland.

Then, we'll all be so safe we just won't know WHAT to do with our safe selves. THANK-you government for saving us from our own freedom!

 

What objection can there be to a well regulated militia being a more "traditional" form of gun control?

 

Pretty hard to isolate gun effects without making tons of assumptions. Why don't you post these studies instead of just talking about them?

Again, post the studies. First you admit there are many factors involved with crime, which would suggest that its possible to have lots of guns and little crime, which is demonstrated by the many countries in which this is the case. This is also demonstrated in the US, where you have places such as DC that have among the lowest gun ownership rates, and the highest homicide.

Yes, there are many factors, but the more instances you have, the more it contributes to the body of evidence.

Then, you say that more guns = more gun crime, and you still offer no evidence to show that in places where there is high guns & low crime, that its due to other factors, whereas in places with more guns and more crime, its due to the guns.

I've found no studies showing that gun control will suppress the black market. The burden of evidence is on you to show that it does. If the drug war has taught us anything, it is that making it illegal and conducting aggressive action against it will not keep people, especially people who are determined to get the illegal items, from getting it. All it does it make the black market more lucrative.

The only studies I've seen claiming more guns = more crime are those taking a collection of countries, and then looking at the overall correlation, which is a very weak argument when trying to look at the criminological effect on guns from country to country.

Its called the body of evidence. One instance doesnt mean much. Numerous cases carries more weight.

Also, the anti-gun crowd is no better. Commonly, you will see people take one or two examples of countries with less guns and less crime, and say "look, evidence that guns cause crime".

 

LOL reiver must be feeling quite foolish about now. One after another door slammed in his face. Good post eh.