Why are many libertarians so brainwashed?

Most of them are libertarians/Alex Jones fanatics.

 

Ok. So long as we are consistent. Grandma and that mother of a newborn need to go to state prison for a year. That'll teach 'em.

 

There ya go again, lol... you really are a dishonest bloke, aren't ya??

Can only take on someone on the fringe that is easy to shoot holes in... I notice you run like a coward from those of us who make reasoned, measured arguments.

Pathetic.

 

No, they have confidence in the currency. That's how money actually works. Money has value so long as people believe that the country is financially sound. If the country is actually financially sound, no problem, if the country is not financially sound, it's a potentially a big problem. They understand our system to the degree that it's actually transparent.

 

This post makes no sense as a response to the context of my post. Where did I say they didn't have confidence and where did I say how "money actually works"?

 

And grandma has probably been told, many times, by her family that she's no longer fit to drive, yet she persists. She does have control over her choice to drive.

If there's no victim, there's no crime. These kinds of issues need to be dealt with as ones of trespassing.

 

so, why are libertarians so brainwashed? Our Founding Fathers gave us our secular and temporal morals and legal ethics, whenever the right clamors for drug tests instead of morals tests while claiming they are insisting on religious morals due our alleged, lack of morality in modern times.

 

The biggest birther advocates out there are self-described 'libertarian/conspiracy theorists' like Alex Jones, David Icke, etc

 

You know nothing about libertarians obviously.

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So? Who cares? I can name 12 bat(*)(*)(*)(*) crazy people who believe in the same policies you do, what does that make you then? Trump is no libertarian, he is a birther.

 

Yeah I'm aware that some birthers are Republicans - Dr. Righteous made the assertion that the 'birther movement' is a 'Republican/neoconservative' agenda, but the majority of 'birther sites' out there are conspiracy theory sites from self-described libertarians.

The same with the "9/11 was an inside job" stuff - I wonder if he's going to say that this is a "Republican movement" too.

 

I am a flat out birther. I NEVER SAW THE DEPOSITIONS. Where were they? You are telling me that the media produced the individuals that saw and verified the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate? I didn't see it. Show it to me again. This time, without the forgeries.

 

I was a little suspicious when I watched the Cold Case Posse analysis of the Long Form - after I heard some of the counter-arguments to the 'forgery' claims then it seemed like a stretch to imagine that it was forged.

Anything's possible, but I wouldn't bet on it being forged at this point.

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't care whether Obama was or wasn't born in the USA. I am simply raising the question of proof. I never saw the sworn testimony of government employees stating that Obama's birth certificate was or wasn't authentic. Like I have said in the past, I have had to submit transcripts and proof of citizenship to many employers. There are people that have seen my "authentication". I would simply like to have seen some government official say "Yes, this dude is authentic." It hasn't happened since 2007 to my knowledge.

 

A) Yes it is, look at the Great Depression; 1/3rd of the money in the US disappeared, thus massive deflation
B) So basically you're gambling America's future on a bet that China will never stop buying our debt. That's incredibly stupid.

 

Actually no it isn't. A 1/3rd of our money did not "disappear", lol

I'm not saying that at all. That's just you not understanding anything about economics.

 

So let me get this straight, Obama and company are running around telling the world that the sky is falling and if we don't start taxing our flatulance that the world will come to an end and libertarians are the paranoid crazy ones?

What I love are the one size fits all collectivists who run around trying to splain to us that they have all the answers. Not only that, their ideas are soooo good that they are going to force them on everyone.

Libertarians simply love the concept of freedom. Collectivists abhor it.

Not to worry though, libertarians are red headed step children that have no chance of gaining power because such power is repugnant to them.

It's like Pope John Paul against Hilter. Sure, Hitler will prevail short term but in the end John will have the last laugh.

 

Global warming hysterics are crazy too. Not all libertarians are crazy, but I see it as a philosophy that draws a lot of crazies for whatever reason.

Most people think that 'some laws' have a purpose, they might have libertarian views on some issues but on the flip side, we have hardline libertarains/anarchists who seem to think that having traffic lights or stop signs are going to lead to a NWO where people are rounded up and forced into reeducation camps.

Most people enjoy freedom sure, hardline libertarians seem to think that just because "some laws exists" (even ones that don't affect them) means they're living under a tyrannical regime.

These guys rarely add anything to the discussion, they just repeat their mantra about 'freedom/collectivism' and the discussion is moot. That's what happens when it comes to black and white thinking.

For example, I support the legalization of weed because it hasn't been shown to be harmful (except possibly to the person using it) - I don't support the legalization of hard drugs like methamphetamine or PCP because addicts have been shown to be a danger to society. I could care less if hard drugs are legal because I don't desire to use them.

Libertarian fanatics on the other hand rant that if you have to support the legalization of all drugs, or else you're a hypocrite. And think that they're living under a totalitarian regime just because they can't shoot meth or heroin (even though they themselves admit they've never even used those drugs or had a desire to). This kind of thought poisons the well and just makes these guys impossible to take seriously.

 

I am libertarian leaning, but I am also conservative leaning.

The way I see it, we need to maintain a civil society. Everyone likes that idea, but can't agree on how to go about it. Some think that a civil society can be legislated (like the collectivist), others think that giving people their freedom of choice is the way to go about it (like the libertarian). I think they are both wrong.

The issue is the morality of the populace. The more moral the populace is the less laws that we need to oversee them. However, the less moral the populace is the more laws we need to contain them. If we had a soceity that has the morality of a group of convicts, then we need to build a jail around such a society. In short, a police state is needed for a society that is amoral. If I wished for a police state, I would seek to undermine the morality of such a society, and that is what I see going on around me. I see it all around me with God being taken out of the classrooms and abortion on demand as being touted as "OK" etc.

Last year the government passed over 40,000 new regulations and laws. Today we are a society that seems to be unable to conduct itself on a civil level that just 20 years ago we were able to do without such laws and regulations. We even need to be watched 24/7 by the NSA, least we blow up the country. Funny, we survived all this time without them. I wonder how?

To sum up, I don't think we can legislate morality. After all, those that legislate come from the society that produced them. How are we able to put moral people in office if society is amoral?

Looking at US history, the Founding Fathers came from a society that sought religious freedom and a Puritan background. That was no fluke. Therefore, I don't think it possible to put in place moral legislatures at this time, mainly because society has become so corrupt. If change comes about, it will be from the bottom up and not the top down.

Looking at world history I am very pessimistic about the state of mankind. For the most part the majority of men have been slaves to other men and this slavery stems from the amoral nature that seems to haunt us. Every society that collapses usually occurs due to moral decay and subsequent tyranny.

 

So what... Bill Ayers is a democrat who wants to murder 25 million conservatives - and he's buds with Barry.

What you're doing is dishonest b/c it misrepresents what libertarianism is, what libertarians believe, and is intended to smear rather than gain understanding - which is why you have to hide from informed people like me.

I, and several other libertarians have posted thoughtful, principled explainations and responses to questions or to simply clarify misunderstandings - but you're not interested in those exchanges of rational discourse - you want to smear libertarianism as if it were your mindless duty - which, by way of your being indoctrinated in the government schools, is what you're programmed to do - another mindless Manchurian Citizen.

The title of your thread - "Why are many libertarians so brainwashed"... is a non-starter. Libertarians may be a lot of things - truly a "big tent", but "brainwashed" aint one of 'em. Libertarians by their nature tend to be contrarians... that may make them difficult to deal with in terms of finding common ground, but to questions of government force, or involvement in peoples lives, their beliefs are negative, and therefore don't present much of a threat to anyone.

Democrats on the other hand... now there is a brainwashed bunch - and, as should be obvious, they are very dangerous to their neighbor, their society, to posterity. Democrats believe in positive government - no more information need be gathered for the indictment.

Anyone who is an advocate of positive government - doesn't matter if they call themselves a socialist, communist, progressive, fascist, nazi, or a democrat - they are the ones who are brainwashed; they are the ones who represent a tremendous threat to their neighbor, society, and posterity.

Those are the lessons that history teaches - but you weren't taught that in the government school you attended. Why do you think that is?? If you don't understand a basic truth like that - doesn't it stand to reason that you are the one who is brainwashed?? Your indoctrination is so complete, that it is all but impossible for you to find your way out of the trap - you are, afterall, brainwashed.

I'd be willing to give audience to you, and help you gain understanding, but you've been presented with pages of rational discourse that you spit upon by rote, and then persist with mindless smears - enough.

You shouldn't start threads about subjects you know nothing about - especially against libertarians, b/c while there may be some nutjobs out there, a sizable percentage of us are very well informed, and can run circles around you ignorant democrats/progressives/communists/socialists, et al.

 

SpaceCricket, like most folks that post threads like this you have no real concept of what libertarianism entails. Peruse this thread.

http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...663-honest-libertarian-discussion-thread.html

This will give you a foundation for which to understand exactly what libetarianism entails. I would also suggest to read BlleedingHeadKen's and Longshot's post history. They have a very good way of cutting through the muck created by false assumptions about libertarians such as you are making.

 

Well on the one hand, seriously, where are the crazies going to go? I mean picture yourself as a real crazy. Someone just waiting to take an ideological ball and really run with it. Right? Well, having lived for some twenty-odd years, you've already been exposed to plenty of whacko ideas that seem pretty cool. So by now, you're probably already a UFO-cultist, psychic, Chupacabra expert, or a miscellaneous paranoid end-of-the worlder. Are you going to go to the Republicans to make friends? No. Maybe try next door with the Democrats? No. Well where is a cool place to hang out? Heyyyyyyy look at all the cake they're having at these third party conventions. These guys are used to being marginalized, and they're so desperate for new members, they're not real choosy about who signs up. And who is the biggest third party out there? That's right, the libertarians! Woo hoo! It also doesn't hurt that the libertarians are mostly geeky males who don't care how you dress, so long as you're able to program a computer or quote Ayn Rand. Plus they think you should have the freedom to be as crazy as you want. Sounds pretty good to me!

But really, you keep talking about these...

...and I just don't see them. Where are all these crazy libertarians you keep telling us about? I see all kinds of nutty Republicans and Democrats, but I'm not seeing the crazy libertarians. The closest I see to that are the stoners, and they don't seem paranoid or extremist as much as vague and confused. In fact, when you consider the interactions that have taken place just between the two of us, it's always snooty, effeminate, Libertarian sympathyzer Dethklok who shows up to spank Alpha Dog, not-at-all-crazy SpaceCricket with inconvenient research findings.

So I'm going to tell you something, Spacey. I suspect you are paranoid and crazy about all the paranoid, crazy libertarians you think are out there. That's right, you may yourself be a primary counterexample to the trend you are trying to complain about.

I'm gonna go have a beer. Carry on!

 

We already have a supreme law of the land that secures a republican form of Government to each of the several States.

 

Dehklok:

You have a wery stereotypical way of looking at people.

 

Oddly enough, Ayn Rand herself wasn't really fond of the 'libertarians', referring to them as:
the latest aberration of some conservatives, the so-called “hippies of the right,” who attempt to snare the younger or more careless ones of my readers by claiming simultaneously to be followers of my philosophy and advocates of anarchism. (Ayn Rand was explicitly ANTI-anarchist!)
**
Rand also said:
**
All kinds of people today call themselves “libertarians,” especially something calling itself the New Right, which consists of hippies who are anarchists instead of leftist collectivists; but anarchists are collectivists. Capitalism is the one system that requires absolute objective law, yet libertarians combine capitalism and anarchism. That’s worse than anything the New Left has proposed. It’s a mockery of philosophy and ideology. They sling slogans and try to ride on two bandwagons.

 

She was also a bit of (*)(*)(*)(*)(*). So there is that to consider.