How long did Treyvon need to wait before going on the offensive ?

Channe, this is a very good question, because it demonstrates the divide between culture and legal understandings. How much do we have to take? To answer that question, let's look at some possible other scenarios that could have played out the same. While this is not what actually happened, you need to ask yourself "how would Martin would have known?"

Let's say that Zimmerman was not a Neighborhood Watch Captain. Let's say he was just an average Joe. As he enters the complex, his truck breaks down. He notices Martin across the street, but he is more concerned about calling a two truck. While he is talking on the phone, he happens to look in Martin's direction. Martin sees someone looking in his direction, so he takes off running. Zimmerman finds out that the tow truck is going to be a while. So, he has two choices. Sit in his truck in the rain, or walk home. Zimmerman decides to walk home. He get's his flashlight, and exits his vehicle. It just happens that he has to go in the same direction that Martin had ran. As Zimmerman came around the building, Martin confronted and attacked him. Zimmerman then in the process of defending himself pulled a gun, and shot Martin.

How could Martin know that this was not the situation? Based on the fact that Martin could not know why Zimmerman was going in the same direction, can you truly justify his attacking him?

 

There should be no point of time martin should have made it physical because he thought Zimmerman is gay. That's a hate crime and gay bashing.

 

lol dude.... what else happens in the alternate world you live in?

 

So skip all the forensic evidence and the testimony of experts you know better

 

Obviously druggie gangbanger wannabes like Trayvon Martin.

 

what we know of the actual fight is based mostly on what Zimmerman has said.
there is no real way to know how the fight was started because the other direct witness is conveniently dead.

 

you ignore the fact that Zimmerman shot Martin soley because Martin was trying to kill him. if he had been calling 911, he wouldn't have also been trying to kill Zimerman (unless he happens to have extra arms) and wouldn't have gotten his punk ass capped.

 

Are you asserting that Zimmerman wounds were self-inflicted? I am sure you know better than the doctors that were called by both the percussion and the defence - not to mention by the federal prosecutors and FBI. The FBI even went as far to say they found no evidence of racial profiling but instead profiling on the actions and dress of TM; but please do not let this get in the way of your racially inflamed narrow view.

You also have no evidence to support your assumption that Martin did not attack Zimmerman.

So again - you want everyone to ignore all the FACTS proven to justify your warped view to make a "racist" where none existed.
All credibility has officially been removed, congratulations.

Many of the TM supporters had determined he was guilty before any evidence was released, long before trial or the initial investigations. Justice for TM was never your intention - you want blood regardless who was really the assailant.

 

try a little less stupid in your life.

You might catch an elbow and fall on your back.

 

Where is the evidence that there was an assault?

 

All of the testimony was lies. The only true statements were the ones which stated that Z shot TM.

 

You are working under the assumption that Martin attacked Zimmerman first. Sense we are delving into possible scenarios, lets say Zimmerman saw Martin and assumed he was up to no good. Lets also assume that Zimmerman called NE 9-11 to report suspicious behavior. Realizing that the police take a while to get that and not wanting the suspect to get away, lets assume Zimmerman decided to make sure Martin was going to stay put until the police got there. Zimmerman exits his vehicle and chases Martin down. When Zimmerman gets to Martin, he insists that Martin wait there for the police to arrive but Martin refuses and tries to continue on his way home, so Zimmerman grabs his right arm to try and keep him there. Martin then punches Zimmerman in the nose with his left hand in an attempt to defend himself. At this point Zimmerman pulls his gun and demands Martin wait for the police. After all, Zimmerman is tired of the F***ing punks always getting away. A struggle ensues and it send with Zimmerman killing Martin.

 

A little refinement in line with the testimony.

Martin spoke to Zimmerman first asking what he was doing belying the claim that there was any "sneak" attack or "sucker punch." Two witnesses agree on this point.

At this point Zimmerman claims he reached for his cell phone. A dubious claim.
If, however, Zimmerman reached for his gun and Martin reacts in self defense.

It explains why none of Martin's DNA or prints was found on the gun. Because Zimmerman had two hands on his firearm. as he had been trained to do.
It explains why there are no defensive injuries on Zimmerman because he made no attempt to defend himself physically because he had both hands on his gun.
It explains the nominal nature of Zimmerman's injuries because martin was trying to control the weapon, not injure Zimmerman.
It explains the lack of Zimmerman's blood or DNA on Martin's hands because he was trying to control the gun, not hit Zimmerman.
It explains the absence of injuries, other than the gunshot, to Martin because Zimmerman was not fighting but trying to kill Martin.
It explains why one witness can see Zimmerman on top and another can see Martin on top and both be correct.
It explains the lack of damage to either person's clothing.
It also explains the holes in Zimmerman's account of the incident.

Zimmerman panicked. Afraid, alone in the dark, confronted by a person he "knew" was a criminal, he panicked and drew his weapon.

And Trayvon Martin defended himself.

 

You have no idea how you would have reacted to what Martin went through. It's easy to talk about what we would do in any given situation, but in reality none of us know how we would react if put in that situation.

 

He got his phone out to call 911. The only time I have ever seen someone get beaten for trying to call 911 was by someone who prefered violence to police intervention. The only reason I would not call the cops, hearing my young friend afraid he was being stalked by a creepy ass cracker and after some confrontation the phone went dead... especially if I heard a little "get off, get off", is because I think I would be turning my friend in.

So... maybe instead of jumping the person clearly on the phone, 100 yards from the neighborhood watch sign... he might have considered hanging around in the rain alone in the dark in a strange neighborhood might look suspicious.

So... I would say, at least long enough to let the man dial his phone. I do not, if I am scared, want to prevent communication. In fact... during that 4 minutes... I might just call the cops... or go home.

You cannot, however, come out of the dark and just start blasting someone. That is the ONLY crime that has been committed. Otherwise... when cops found you suspicious, they would just beat you down rather than ask for ID.

I would say long enough TO identify himself. An attempt at a dialog between yourself and a stranger would be long enough.

 

Because none of us have ever been young, and followed at night.

 

Give the evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman first. I would love to see it.

 

What evidence do you have that proves Martin was trying to kill Zimmerman? There is no such evidence.

 

you don't bang a man's head on a cement sidewalk to subdue them.

[video=youtube;NMQo3YrEniU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMQo3YrEniU[/video]

 

I am asserting that Zimmerman's wounds were not serious and that there is no evidence to support Martin inflicted those wounds. For all we know the wounds were a direct result from a struggle and could have been made by rolling on the grass, hitting a tree branch, or any number of possibilities. Zimmerman's own doctor stated his wounds were not serious. He had a few scrapes on his head and a busted nose. I saw no testimony of any FBI agent in the trial claiming Zimmerman didn't racially profile Martin. In fact, racial profiling wasn't even mentioned in the trial. What was mentioned is that Zimmerman profiled Martin as an F***ing punk. In a matter of a few minutes, Zimmerman had made the assumption that Martin was a criminal attempting to commit a crime.
Call my view narrow if you wish, but I saw the trial and I know what evidence the trial produced. Non of the evidence proved Zimmerman was innocent. We now learn that the Jury was close to being a hung jury in that three of the jurors thought Zimmerman was guilty of a murder or manslaughter and the other three thought he was not guilty. I see something very wrong with a grown man shooting an unarmed teenager and claiming self defense when the grown man's injuries were not even serious.

 

Let someone start banging your head into the ground and you tell me when you think your life is in danger. And yes there is proof martin did inflict those wounds. There were witnesses.

 

I agree with all you said, especially that he drew his gun when he claimed he was going for his cell phone. There is no way Martin was going for Zimmerman's gun the way Zimmerman claimed. Martin wouldn't have been able to see the gun to go for it to begin with, and according to Zimmerman, Martin was on top with his knees at Zimmerman's under arm. Zimmerman's gun was supposedly holstered under his right hip. I don't even see how Zimmerman could have gotten to his gun under this scenario.

 

And, according to zimmerman...

Hand 1: Punching Zimmerman repeatedly in the face
Hand 2: Covering Zimmerman's mouth and nose, despite hits he's able to scream loudly and clearly
Hand 3 (and perhaps 4): Grabbing Zimmerman's head and repeatedly bashing it into the sidewalk
Hand 4: Apparently emanating from martin's left ankle going for Zimmerman's gun
Eye's 1 &2: On Martin's face looking at Zimmerman's face
Eye's 3 & 4: Apparently located on the interior of Martin's calves because that is the only way he could have seen Zimmerman's gun

Martin must have been a truly unique creature. It is surprising none of these amazing attributes was noticed during the autopsy unless....

"When you eliminate the impossible..."

 

(*)(*)(*)(*)ing forever. Since the Thug had a cell phone, his correct option was to call the cops, not his fat illiterate ignorant whore who fanned the flames by suggesting that Zimmerman was a "gay rapist".

Citizens DO NOT have the option to "go on the offensive", every instance of that is a crime.

 

how was it holstered? side or rear. have the missues jump on you and see how easy it still reach into a pocket and you'll have your answer. it won't be as simple as w/o her there, but still do-able with some struggle. you'll say that she's not as heavy as Martin, but then you're not as motivated as Zimmerman either.

also keep in mind that back splatter on the inside of TM's clothes indicate that his shirt was 2-4 inches from his body when he was shot. that wouldn't happen if he had been on his back and Zimmerman on top, or with both standing. he had to be leaning forward over Zimmerman.