Fast Food workers declare minimum wage "unlivable"

I just don't get how people can't see it. The minimum wage is what labor is actually worth? LOL How is that even possibly a true statement, when it has been proven over and over and over that the minimum wage is a completely arbitrary figure that has devalued by nearly 50% over the last 40 years?

My only real question is are some people truly so stupid that they don't get that, or are they just being dishonest?

 

B.S. Only average to below average workers are getting minimum wage. I'm not talking for a couple of months here. I'm not talking teens or college kids, working a little for extra spending cash. I'm talking career minimum wage employees, you know the ones complaining the most? THOSE people are average to below average and want a raise.

I never said it couldn't be brought up a little, but its a tricky balancing trick. Going right to $15 isn't right, considering substitute teachers get paid that now. You think someone flipping burgers should be paid as much as a substitute teacher? The math is cancelled out by economics.

Simple example, maybe you can understand. Atari videogames in the early 80s, sold for the same thing as games now. By YOUR MATH, a videogame should sell for well over $100. Why aren't they that price? Because people would NOT pay, because its not worth it. A burger flipper is worth X amount right now. They are not worth $15/hr or $20/hr. Nope.

 

Oh , we COMPLETELY agree on that then, I am calling for a raise to $9.27 an hour to reflect the inflation over the last 40 years. That's all.

As far as electronics, including video games. There are MANY factors which speak to their prices. Hell I remember when my parents bought their first VCR in the late 80s they paid like $600 for the thing, today they are what ? $30?

As far as that goes, in the 60s a McDonalds cheeseburger was $.20. Today they are a $1.

That just lends credence to my point. Prices on everything else have fluctuated to show ACTUAL value, but minimum wage has stagnated over the years.

 

"Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Let's suppose someone changed the minimum wage to $25 an hour and businesses had no choice but to pay that if they wanted employees. Would you be telling them employers "too bad, that is the actual value of those employees?"

Taxcutter says:
Then the employer has no choice but to raise the cost of his products or services. And when the customers decide his products/services cost too much they go elsewhere then the employer has to lay off all these arbitrarily priced employees. Or maybe the employer cannot raise prices due to competitive pressures and has to either go out of business or borrow money to automate the overpriced minimum wage jobs away.

Arbitrary minimum wage, like unions only works in a noncompetitive environment where the consumer is insensitive to price (a rare scenario.)

 

Because it was NEVER designed to be anything other than a stopgap to a real career. It hasn't increased in value all that much because it has sadly, very little value, because ANYONE can do it. The fact some people are treating it as a way of life is a problem that can NOT be fixed by Washington.

Prices are all over the place. Computers and electronics are much cheaper now comparatively to the 80s.

 

You're missing the point. You state that the minimum wage has not increased much, not only has it not increased at all, it has in fact DECREASED, and by more than a little.

We aren't telling minimum wage workers that they aren't worth more than they were 40 years ago, we are telling them they are worth LESS, CONSIDERABLY less than they were 40 years ago.

Minimum wage in 1965 was $1.25 an hour, which is $9.27 in today's money. $7.25 today was worth $.97 in 1965. In other words in ACTUAL terms minimum wage is 78% of what it was in 1965. How could ANYONE dig themselves out of a situation like that ? Oh that's right, welfare .

 

Intellectual dishonesty is the key to a good political debate. Neither side wants to tell the whole truth, and they love mixing in unrelated discrimination and class warfare to stoke the fire, and take the topic off reality..

 

No. It is tied to a Standard fixed by our elected representatives regarding poverty, not the labor theory of value or market value.

I believe a minimum wage may not necessarily be a bad thing, since it merely depends on implementation. A public policy scheme which conforms to our own laws regarding the concept and legal doctrine of employment at will could solve for simple poverty on an at-will basis whenever someone who is looking for a job doesn't find one in a timely manner; and, at the rock bottom cost of a form of minimum wage that enables the least efficient or labor with other priorities, to pursue other opportunity costs.

 

Sad, but somehow they got into that hole in the first place. You think it was accidental? Seriously I don't have an answer. Giving them more money isn't going to solve it. Far too many wealthy sports stars go bankrupt after they retire(in their 20's and 30s). They had millions and it didn't help. Why? Because many of them are about as intellectually qualified as your average minimum wage worker, except for athletic skills. Many formerly poor lottery winners go bankrupt. How is that possible? Stupidity, nothing more.

Most of the poor had their shot in high school, but decided not to pay attention. It all spiraled down from there. Sad, but what can the rest of us do? All give up a greater portion of our assets to help them? ^$&*#*@ that. I give enough.

As far as dishonesty, I'm being the MOST honest here. We all know the REAL problem why people are stuck on welfare or dead end jobs, but our politicians won't say it.

 

"How could ANYONE dig themselves out of a situation like that ? Oh that's right, welfare "

Taxcutter says:
Not welfare, but changing to qualify for a better paying job.

Trucking companies are screaming for drivers. Rookie drivers get nearly $50K/yr. Railroads are seeking traincrew (engineers and brakemen) and they will train candidates. Traincrew can easily make in six figures. Any one warm and vertical can get a job in ND in the oil fields. $60k -80k easy.

So if these minimum wage folks wanted a liveable wage, why are these jobs going begging? In the case of the transportation jobs, the job requires you to occasionally pee in a bottle (drug test). Oil field work is hard demanding labor in a cold environment.

 

That's not "fair" making people work hard for their money.

 

boom and bust cycles even happens to Firms.

 

Oh, I'm not suggesting that just throwing money at them is going to change anything. Actually I would suggest raising the minimum wage to $9.27 an hour would lower the "income" of a few as it would take them off the welfare rolls.

And what you say about the poor and education is true, but the reality is that poverty and lack of education can quickly become a revolving door where many lives are destroyed . I'm under no illusions that raising the minimum wage will change this. I'm simply stating that minimum wage should be raised to match inflation so that those who earn minimum wage, or near it do NOT qualify for welfare. That has been my ONLY argument the entire thread.

Frankly, I find it stupefying that minimum wage employees drive new cars, smoke cigarettes, drink beer, etc etc, but that is THEIR money so let them do what they want with it. It has NO bearing on the fact that the USG should not be subsidizing less than actual wages via welfare rather than raising the minimum wage.

And also, I was not calling YOU specifically either stupid or dishonest.

 

LOl, let's suppose that there are 14,000 McD stores with 40 employees each that's 560K employess, now let's assume 20% of them go to work in the oil fields. What do you think that does to the oil field workers wages? Oh that's right, they fall through the floor because I can guarantee you the only reason that the wages are high is because of demand.

So, rather than force McD to pay an actual wage which takes their employees off welfare you are suggesting that they all uit and dilute another workforce so that THEIR pay drops as well? LOL

Oh and by the way, what then happens to McD? Oh, that's right , THEY would then have to raise their pay to attract employees, which is exactly what you hoped to avoid in the first place.

LOL how illogical of you.

 

"What do you think that does to the oil field workers wages?"

Taxcutter says:
Nothing. Oil patch wages are notoriously indifferent to labor supply because oil field workers deliver tremendous value to the employer.

MickeyD will automate burger flipping.

 

Tremendous value? But I thought you just got done stating that is a relatively uneducated position that anyone could do if they wanted to?

Oh that's right, the ONLY reason they bring value is because there are so few of them. If 50% of the population could perform brain surgery, guess what would happen to brain surgeon salaries? If 50% of the population could quarterback the NY Giants to the SuperBowl, guess what would happen to Eli Manning's salary, if 50% of the population could be the CEO of Wal Mart............ well you get the idea.........

 

Yes but that work requires skills, its dangerous and messy and has a learning curve to get good at it especially on Oil Platforms. And you still need a High School Diploma to be considered. Flipping burgers generally will not kill you.

Soldiers get better pay and benefits to but its not a profession everyone can or should do.

 

Some jobs simply pay more according to many factors. Not everyone will suddenly start working on oil platforms obviously. Not everyone is capable of being a brain surgeon no matter how much they want it. Lawyers get paid fairly well to incredible even though there are LOADS of them. CPAs and accountants as well.

Preparing burgers or taking orders in most fast food places is the lowest on the totem pole, somewhere around raking leaves and mowing lawns. An 8 yr old could technically do it, not including labor laws=) Push the picture of the burger, drink or fries on the screen and it zips to people in the back who put it together. You think you even need a highschool diploma to do it? Why do you think they removed LANGUAGE from the ordering software? If was confusing them. The machine spits out the correct amount of change, because the math skills of those applying was so poor, they couldn't even do that right. If that doesn't make your head spin, what will? Yes, pay them MORE. That will help them. Oh please!!!

The ONLY fast food place that impresses me is Chik-fil-a and wouldn't you know it, they get paid more. Wonder why.

 

Should the government be subsidizing the income of full time employees? Yes or no?


I'm not arguing that the average fast food worker isn't a moron. Hell, I argue that the average American is a moron, regardless of their job or income.

 

Paying minimum wage is ethical and legal. You flip a burger, you get minimum wage. Like another poster said. Get an education or learn a trade. Then you'll earn more money. Poor little things.

 

Untrue. I have owned a small business. And I mean small. Sole proprietorship. What a business like that would do is simply cut staff. Unintended consequences would appear immediately.

 

Legal? Yes. Ethical? Not by my estimation. Sorry that you believe giving McDonalds employees welfare assistance so that McD can make an extra $80K a year per store is ethical.

 

Replace American with anyone from any country, thank you=)

 

Too bad. If you don't want to work there, take another job. They tell you the wages before you take the job. They pay the prevailing wage for the industry. Nothing new here. This has been the norm since fast-food joints opened up. In life you have to earn your way.

 

If you're a small business with say 10 employees and you're paying them $7.25 an hour , raising them to $9.27 an hour would increase your payroll by $808 per week , well really closer to $1200 by the time SS and such is figured in.

Frankly, if your business can't absorb that, why do you have 10 employees in the first damned place? Your overstaffed.

I have 10 employees exactly. Their average wage is $11.50 an hour. My payroll is close to $4600 a week. If I didn't have the sales to justify 10 people I wouldn't employ 10 people. But as a decent business owner, I wouldn't fire 1 of them if a couple of them asked for raises LOL

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That's incorrect, they pay the wage the law says they have to pay, not one penny more. All I'm suggesting is that the law increase the pay.