Unfortunately for you , unless they actually HARM another person, they have a right to do so. Just as you have the right to talk smack about Christians, they have the right to talk smack about gays. Unfortunately what you and others like you really want is for Christians to not have rights.
So then, you support the individual right to marry whomever you want as long as a business, such as a church, isn't forced to allow you to marry on their premises?
This is the funny thing, we wouldn't need any of these laws, certain groups wouldn't need special protections to insure their civil rights and liberties, if other certain majority groups weren't so good at discrimination, harassment, violence and hate. Historically in the US the victims of this kind of persecution have been black, non christian (like jews), other minority ethnicites and gays. And which major group has been the dominant purveyor of such atrocities against humanity in this country? White christians. Now we have the white christian contingent here on PF telling us their racism, religious persecution and hatred toward gays or other minorities are guaranteed to them in the constitution under the 1st amendment. The 1st amend allows you to hold any opinion you might desire to hold, even to express it, but it doesn't allow you the right to put those opinions and beliefs into physical action. The bible doesn't give you protection against violating the law although many of these people will erroneously and disgustingly claim that they in fact have that right under the freedom of religion clause in the the 1st amend. Seriously, how much more frakked up can you be? I will say this to all the christians not only claiming but acting on these erroneous beliefs...god is watching you and on judgement day you will be called to answer for your hate, intolerance and crimes of conscience and inhumanity against humanity. But most of all you will be held to account for why you turned his message of love and compassion into one of disgusting and abominable filth. See you in hell.
John 13:34 34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." Jesus didn't say "except blacks" or "except jews" or "except muslims" or "except homosexuals", he said everyone. If you don't follow this commandment, his 11th Commandment, then you are not living the life and philosophy of Jesus.and you will be condemned to an eternity of fire and damnation in hell.
It would be just as legal as if they hung out a sign saying "No n****rs allowed" And just as admirable.
Correct- people can oppose homosexuality and people can be prejudiced against Blacks and Latinos and Jews. But if they run a business in Iowa, they are subject to State law, and they cannot let their prejudices dictate who they refuse to do business with.
Start one up- I will be glad to express outrage against Muslims executing gays. This thread was started by a poster who just likes to rail against gays. We are responding to this thread. You want to start a thread with your outrage of how gays are treated by Muslims, I encourage it. The only thread I remember like it was a thread applauding Russians for beating up gays and claiming that they were pedophiles. - - - Updated - - - Oh this whole thread is fauxrage against gays.
The law is wrong. But , I still have to wonder why people like this are so stupid as to give a reason for not wanting their business? Of course if they don't give a reason and the gays just assume it's because they are gay, that is the gay's problem. Or would you then declare that no one should ever be able to deny service to a gay person even if the reason for denial had nothing to do with gay?
Really? I don't think I have seen anyone suggest that Christians don't have the right to express themselves. Now of course we have the right to criticize what Christians or Muslims or Gays say. Really that claim is as stupid as me saying you really want Gays to not have rights. Well actually- maybe you don't want Gays to have any rights. Let me put it another way- I think both Homosexuals and Christians are protected by the same rights and in the same manner. A Muslim can't refuse service to a Christian and a Christian can't refuse service to a Homosexual- in Iowa. - - - Updated - - - Well then you need to talk to the people of Iowa, who decided to have that law. As I said before- Christians shouldn't be able to refuse to serve blacks, Muslims shouldn't be able to refuse to serve gays, Jews shouldn't be able to refuse to serve Mexicans. That appears to be the law in Iowa, and I think the law is correct.
Love each other as you love me doesn't mean to have same sex. and there is no 11th commandment. Libs.................just make up (*)(*)(*)(*) as they go.............. Don't try to shame me about this. It violates the Bible. But hey, if I'm wrong and gays get into heaven, then nobody's lost anything. But if I'm correct...................either way, you wont be seeing me in Hell. There is no law that makes me condone such actions. If a gay couple want to hold the "ceremony" on my property, I DO have the Right to tell them to go away.
Yes, but that is not illogic. Let's point if I can choose between being homosexual or being heterosexual. What do you think I am going to choose? What reasons do I have to choose to be homosexual. I don't have any reason, and I have millions to choose being heterosexual. Homosexuality is not a choice. You are born homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual or the least common of all, asexual. How they are born homosexual, they defy the laws to be able to have a normal life like the rest of people. Do you get it?
Eh, my new self policy on here is to stop talking to people who deliberately lie about what I have said or what I believe so enjoy the thread liar.
Where did I lie exactly? Here I will repost it again Really? I don't think I have seen anyone suggest that Christians don't have the right to express themselves. Now of course we have the right to criticize what Christians or Muslims or Gays say. Really that claim is as stupid as me saying you really want Gays to not have rights. Well actually- maybe you don't want Gays to have any rights. Let me put it another way- I think both Homosexuals and Christians are protected by the same rights and in the same manner. A Muslim can't refuse service to a Christian and a Christian can't refuse service to a Homosexual- in Iowa. - - - Updated - - - Well then you need to talk to the people of Iowa, who decided to have that law. As I said before- Christians shouldn't be able to refuse to serve blacks, Muslims shouldn't be able to refuse to serve gays, Jews shouldn't be able to refuse to serve Mexicans. That appears to be the law in Iowa, and I think the law is correct. If I made any factual error in my post- point it out and I will be glad to correct or apologize. If you can show where I lied, well I will be glad to have such a thing pointed out to me- because I never intentionally lied and I am curious to see what you think I lied about. Of course if you can't point out where I lied....well I think it would be clear who is the liar here.
True, but it would not only be the minority group protesting. A lot of heterosexuals couples would likely protest too, if that was the avenue accepted. CFA is different because they didn't actually exclude homosexuals. What confuses me about this (and I say this as a gay man) is why on earth would this couple want to give their money to these business owners who are against homosexuals? Their money could end up being donated to some anti-gay campaign or something. Why would you want to have a wedding reception in a place where you are not welcome?
I disagree. There is a lot of outrage that some people supposedly "broke a law" that no one can seem to link to. There are others who say these people are allowed to choose their clients. If that is what you gays want to claim as "fauxrage against gays" then by all means, own it and cry about it... like everything else anyone who disagrees with you says. Call them "homophobes" and move on. Ignore threads like this and you won't have a need to falsely accuse people of picking on you.
Someone else provided the actual name of the law- took me 3 seconds with Google to find a link to the Iowa Civil Rights Act. https://www.legis.iowa.gov/DOCS/ACO/IC/LINC/Chapter.216.html Remember it wasn't homosexuals who started this thread- this was a big whine fest - i.e. fauxrage- about the meanie 'gays' who had the audacity to claim protection under Iowa State law. I understand the sentiment- but I am as sympathetic to that claim as to the suggestion that they should be able to exclude blacks or Jews as clients. You brought up the fauxrage- not me. Like I said- this whole thread is fauxrage- about one gay couple filing suit against one christian couple. The OP implies that this is 'gays' against 'christians' but no- its one gay couple who want to get married, and one christian couple who don't approve of them getting married at their business that allows anyone else to get married. This thread is about the OP's fauxrage- by the way a great term you introduced to the thread. And what makes you think I am gay? Do you perceive me as a particularly snappy dresser? I have been happily married to my wife for over 20 years with a wonderful child. I just don't like bigotry. .[/QUOTE] Call them "homophobes" and move on..[/QUOTE] I haven't called them homophobes- I think that they are bigots- but it really wouldn't matter to me- they broke Iowa law, and discriminated against this gay couple- to me it is no different than if they discriminated against a black couple or a Jewish couple. .[/QUOTE] Ignore threads like this and you won't have a need to falsely accuse people of picking on you.[/QUOTE] I haven't falsely accused anyone of picking on me- I haven't accused anyone of picking on me at all. But I encourage you to follow your own advise- if all this fauxrage upsets you, then ignore threads like this.
A church can certainly be a business. In fact under the tax code, most are. They are non profit businesses to be sure, but businesses nonetheless.
Uh, yeah.... since you read that whole thing, please link to the law about discrimination in business transactions... like no one else has. Never said it was. Who started it, is irrelevant. I pointed out the 2 sides as I have seen them. Tell them, not me. I've made it clear I don't agree with the business owner's decision... I simply acknowledge and strongly support their right to do so. If it breaks a law, then they will be dealt with. Doesn't mean they don't have a right to act. Yeah... we see it a lot from the left. Whether it's gays, women wanting free condoms, or blacks caring about one dead black child while 11,106 others were killed and ignored during the trial's time period. A lot of it out there. I agree on all counts. Homophobe is a stupid overused word that has lost all of it's intended power, and they may very well be bigots. But from the story it just seems as simple as them not approving of gay marriage, based on their belief in the Bible. I have zero problem with that. If the law exists... which I still haven't read... then it's sort of like discriminating based on race. But not. Nothing here upsets me. I'm interested in the business owner's decision.... not the fake outcry from the left.
Eh..... that's what many gays would like to believe. There would be a few of course, but outnumber the show of support? Not by a longshot. Most incidents like this there is a lot more bark than bite. Especially when it comes to support from members not from the group. In this case... straight people. I'm glad you see the difference. I've seen others in various forums make some pretty silly claims about CFA. All that happened was an owner saying, when asked in an interview, that he doesn't happen to believe in gay marriage. I completely agree with you. And I'm not sure if they are still trying to force the transaction or just sue them over their decision not to rent to them?! The couple should take their money, and their friends elsewhere. They have a right to be upset, I give them that. But like you said, their money could be used against everything they stand for. Seems the owners offered any other services for them, just not the actual ceremony.... but I don't blame the marrying couple for saying no. The owners don't deserve their money. I say that as a fellow Christian. While I believe these people have a right to choose their clientele, those who are rejected have a right to have their say. If it breaks a law, then that is for the state to deal with. Reading that story it looks like these business owners are saying "look, we have no problem with you personally and will offer any service we are able to.... we just don't agree with the actual marriage ceremony taking place in our building" (which used to be a church after all).
Look- I led you to the water, it is not my job to pour it down your throat. Read it, don't read it- knock yourself out- the law is there, and that is the basis for the couples complaint. You posted complaining bout the fauxrage- and that was what the OP was- fauxrage about the actions of one gay couple and one christian couple. Well according to the law- no they don't have the right to discriminate that way. I am telling you, because we are having a conversation of sorts. Again- this thread was Conservative fauxrage- about the poor Christian couple. We see that alot from the right- whether its about the poor downtrodden white men who can't get jobs because of Affirmative action, or the Conservatives outraged because a Democrat gets caught screwing someone he shouldn't or outrage about women wanting free condoms. Yeah there is a lot of it out there. Both sides do it. Oh I think homophobe is misused at times, but frankly most of the time when people complain about the use of the term, its like the people complaining about the use of the term racist- always reminded of Shakespeare "I think the lady doth protesteth too much" or something to that effect. Well then you should probably start a different thread- this thread is about the fake outcry of the far right about what those nasty gays did to Christians. I mean really- if you are not interested in the 'fake outcry'- well there isn't much left to this thread- but if you are not interested in it- why are you bringing it up? - - - Updated - - - but Churches are dealt with differently under the law. Churches can discriminate. Churches don't even have to follow the same employment rules other business's have to. Churches can exclude whoever they want from being married in their church.
It's not there. You posted a generic link, that you failed to read, which doesn't address this issue. You don't seem able to lead anyone anywhere. Pointing things out isn't equal to "complaining". Btw... when you learn a new word... overusing it is the worst thing you can do. The right to free speech assigns them the right to tell a couple they can't get married there. If the state wants to step in and say "hey, we got this newfangled law here that says you have to".... let them. That's a different issue. The couple has the right to say what they want.... period. Trying to assign "fear" to a simple disagreement with gays marrying results in the misuse of the (made up) term 100% of the time. There may be some people who are afraid of gayness.... but the majority of people assigned the label "homophobe" are simply against it for religious reasons. That applies to most threads in these civil rights and political forums. I used the term fauxrage, and you have been obsessed with it ever since. That was the extent of me "bringing it up". Again... pointing something out does not equate to "interest". Watch: You are very 'wordy'.... but I have no 'interest' in getting to know you. (pointing out ^ ).............(but no interest ^ )
So essentially...you said the same thing I did. They won't host a gay wedding...so the gays are exercising their rights to file a discrimination suit.
Free Speech means the couple has every right to express their opinion without any governmental interference. But Free speech doesn't give them any right to discriminate in doing business with a couple simply because they are black or jewish or gay.
