A Realistic Take on Affirmative Action

AA was created to fix this problem: When an African-American tried to get a job, even if he/she had the merit, they were turned down for employment due to the color of their skin.

AA fixed that problem, and over the years it created a new problem: when an African-American tried to get a job, even if he/she did NOT have merit, they were GIVEN employment due to the color of their skin.

It seems the problem has shifted, thus our solution should shift. If the problem is the difficulties African-American's face in attaining the resources to achieve the merit, then why don't we quit wasting money on AA and instead focus on subsidizing their education. That way when we fix the problem of merit we can stop the subsidizing of their education and SAVE THE MONEY.

AA seems to be a never-ending loop, I don't mind the intent, but we must use solutions that progress not stagnate.

 

Have I stumbled upon an alternate universe here? I am 48 years old and I have encountered more anxiety about affirmative action in the month or so that I have hung around here than I did in all of my life previous.

It is weird.

 

What's your point?

You don't think its a problem because it hasn't gotten media attention, or that of people you associate with?

It's not worth a conversation?

Wasting money is no big deal?

 

My point is that it seems that a lot of people who frequent this board are obsessed with affirmative action.

I have spent some time on other boards.......ones with lots of racists and bigots......but this subject never came up that I saw. It is weird that some here have such a boner for this issue.

 

I don't think its that weird. If you benefit from it you wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, and if you don't benefit from it you're usually labeled a racist if you bring it up.

But O.K., its a subject, that for whatever reason, is disproportionately tackled more on this forum than any other avenue of communication you've utilized in the past 48 years. That being said: What are your thoughts on the topic?

 

Maybe I, and others, just don't like being discriminated against because of our skin colour?

How wierd of us

 

Please.....look at one of the FIFTY other threads on the topic for my opinion. That is, if you have not already figured out that I think it is not a problem worthy of my concern.

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Yeah man, the white man has been oppressed! It just ain't fair!

 

When we have to pay for their inefficient life styles, you are damn straight that we are being oppressed.

Nelson Mandela is going to die having realized that black people cannot do what he wanted to prove to the world that they could do - run a country. For the people who were taught that the United States was founded by unjust slave owners, it should not be that difficult to realize that a just constitution needs to be written. As of about a year ago, black people forfeited the opportunity to deliver that just constitution. Black people will never be able to claim that they taught the world how to be peaceful and prosperous. The best that black people will ever be able to prove is that they can follow the system that white man has delivered.

 

I am, speaking as a white male, actually being opressed. When I apply for a job the state might say that they don't want to give me that job because I have the wrong skin colour or sex. And were I a black guy or a woman I could get that job even though I'm less qualified. That is horrible, racist and sexist.

Now of course, leftists don't care because they never think in terms of individuals but in groups. I'm part of the white male group, so I deserve to be discriminated against because... well, I guess I was born to it and didn't have any choice. Sure, that's not racist at all..

hypocrites all of them.

 

Really? See, I have been working for a long, long time- and I have never experienced that. Being a white male has been nothing but an advantage for me. And looking around me- at all the white males that work with me- none of us seem terribly oppressed.

The only guys I have ever hear say that they were discriminated against because they were white males are guys who consistantly blame others for their lack of success or their failures.

 

Might? Did this happen to you or are you just scared that it might?

 

At the end of the day all that matters is what a man makes of himself.
Societies need to be built on the ability of great men and women.
Not on what they say but what they do. It doesn't matter what their race is only their ability.
If race and ability are linked well you've got yourself there one might sh*t storm of a problem.

 

That is crazy talk.

 

Well, in sweden it's a fact. We have, eh, women quotas I think it would translated as. And we have the state offering to pay around half the wage for immirants or something like that. How can I, as a male non-immigrant, compete with that? What I'm talking about is actual opression: I will have the state agianst me. What lefties use to jsutify that is that other people use private means. I don't care if people discriminate privately -that's freedom for you- but I do care when the state discriminates without good reason based on sex and race.

I am not an adult by the way, and quite successful thus far. But I need not be a failed white guy to see that this blatant state racism and sexism is wrong.

might because I'm not an adult. see above answer also.

 

So- none of what you are worrying about has ever happened to you....and we are talking about AA in America- and you don't live here- and you as a matter of fact are 'quite successful'.

So- you- like myself- have never experienced any discrimination because of AA.

Well thanks for playing.

 

Why fight racism with racism? Especially when that racism doesn't really fix the problem, minorities need to be able to compete on an even playing field when they enter the workforce, why not focus on fixing all the issues that lead up to a failed job interview than just mandating someone be hired due to skin color?

Why focus on the fact that only a minority of qualified white people lose out on jobs due to AA? Isn't a minority of people important too?

 

It will, in a few years. Maybe, but it depends on what jobs I will apply for.

This is about AA in general, not specifically in the US. But even if it's just about US AA there's still a similar situation there and my posts has relevance.

Just because I personally might not experience any of this isn't a good reason not to be pissed off about it. What kind of morality is that? And what kind of argument is it even?

 

Affirmative action is just morally wrong, if nothing else.

You're giving people positions or advantages in place of other equally or more-qualified people because of their skin colour, and that's literally the exact reason. As such, it's racist.

Most arguments for it come down to 'Well, whites have had an advantage for so long and still do' so we need to do some kind of 'revenge' schtick where we take positions qualified white people would otherwise get and give them to black people just because they're black.

If you want the position, get the education/skills. Your skin colour has nothing to do with WHO you are, so stop using as an excuse to get (*)(*)(*)(*) you don't deserve.

 

Good AA policy is just a tool to correct deficit in accessibility. Bad AA policy is when its used for quotas/norming. Any tool used bad is going to be ineffective or outright dangerous. Blame your policy makers if its bad policy.

 

It is true! Any white person is obviously more qualified for a given job than a black person who applies for said job. Everyone knows that!

 

But that does not protect the minority from still being discriminated against by the person doing the hiring due to their race. Come up with a credible means of solving that problem. Until we take human bias and bigotry out of the equation, we will continue to have the problem.

 

You can't though. You can't control what people think, and trying to do so causes nothing but harm. So don't even bother.

Most successful businesses, unless they exist in a community of like-minded racists (and most people in the USA are not racist), are not racist.

 

And you have real evidence of this? Can you cite objective peer reviewed studies showing these claims to be true? Or are you just letting your own prejudices determine your view?

 

That has been my experience as well. I will also note that the white guys who complain about not getting the promotion, tend to be the lazy sob's who slack on the job and blame everyone else for their failures.

 

How would a good AA policy be implemented more exactly? Care to elaborate? I think it's unjustified to give one group different rules than another. Lets just have it equal eh?

You don't seem to get it.. What a suprise.

If it's a private company they should be free to discrminate however they wish. Who are we to tell them how to run their company? It's none of our business.

And also, just because one white guy is racist and doesn't want to hire blacks, does that justify having the state make people hire other blacks (who has perhaps never been discriminated against) over other whites (who has had nothing to do with the discrimination)? In my view, that's just a racist way to look at it. If a few blacks suffer that doesn't justify helping all blacks; if a few whites are bad that doesn't justify punishing all whites etc.