What was such an existential threat to Israel that they were driven to the drastic step of breaking an internationally brokered ceasefire?. Let us find out. The short answer is that someone dug a hole 275 metres from the Gaza boundary. No, I am not exaggerating; that is it. That is the entire reason. And yes, I understand if you are incredulous. Because if you have been following to date, you will know that Hamas scrupulously observed the ceasefire, while Israel did not comply with her obligations [My apologies, HBendor, if you find those facts to be hateful of Israel]. This is just such a bizarre reason to break a ceasefire that it requires closer scrutiny. http://www.ceia-sc.org/page37/page45/page45.html Suspected!!! Based on “suspicions” Israel broke a ceasefire, and then her Apologists claim that Israel is never the aggressor? Noooo Klipkap; you have got it all wrong. It was because”rockets were raining down on Israel”. Yeah? Really? You mean that the IDF data of the dramatic decrease in rocket attacks since the ceasefire was instituted were lies? You mean that the Israeli on Snakestretcher's videoclip bumblingly admitting that Hamas was not responsible for the 13 utterly ineffective rocket attack over 5 moth ceasefire period was high? But also, we have never investigated what Israel did during the ceasefire other than NOT to comply with her requirements to lift the blockade. Shall we go into that now? Naah – it would just dilute the importance of Israel’s breaking of the ceasefire on 4 November 2008. Have you ever seen Israeli detail regarding this hole in the ground, other than that it “suspected” it was meant to kidnap soldiers 275 metres away? I would be humbled if you could show me what length of lateral tunnels there were. The Palestinians are inveterate tunnel diggers. They dig them to supply their country with soccer balls, elastic bands, powdered milk, etc. They also dig them as defensive structures anticipating the next Israeli invasion; just as the Cambodians did; just as the Timorese did; just as the Rhodesians did. Did I just suck that ‘fact’ out of my thumb? I apologise. Allow me to provide solid references and evidence. http://www.cartercenter.org/news/editorials_speeches/gaza_010809.html http://www.democracynow.org/2009/1/22/ex_carter_admin_official_israel_ignored Video clip: Robert Pastor on his meeting with Khaled Masal So Israel invaded and Hamas responded. Wait!!! That is the reverse of the Zionist claims. Exactly!!! Forum readers, that is the sum total of the evidence on the WWW. There is no proof that the ‘tunnel’ went anywhere near to the border. There are no IDF photographs. There is nothing. Except that the breaker of the ceasefire suspected that it might be used to abduct soldiers. Please prove me wrong. And then 1400+ Gazans were slaughtered. So, here is my summary: 1) Hamas had bent over backwards to ensure that the ceasefire was upheld. Fatah elements, intent on embarrassing Hamas managed to fire 13 rockets into Gaza over the 5 month period. 2) Israel did not comply with her side of the bargain. She wants us to believe that Hamas agreed to the ceasefire without requiring Israel to do anything. Pull the other leg. 3) On4 November Israel broke the ceasefire based on “suspicions”. In November 2008 Israel broke a ceasefire; Hamas retaliated; in mid-December 2008 Israel rejected a Hamas offer to re-establish the ceasefire; and then in late-December, based on the Hamas retaliations, Israel invaded Gaza and massacred 1400+ Gazans, using white phosphorus and human shields. But you know all of this because you have previously seen the video clips and heard the evidence of white phosphorus burns on civilians from Danish MSF doctors. And all of this happened, justified by "suspicions" ------------------- Next example of major conflict - Case number 9 - Cause and effect in 2012 - which came first, the Israeli provocations and assassinations or the Hamas rocket barrages. [I apologist if my facts represent hatred and anti-semitism] ..... (to be continued) ....
Is that a threat, HB. Like when you offered to empty the magazine of your Glock? As I told you on that occasion, your threats were lodged with the Guardia Civil in Catalonia. As are the Forum details. Better hope that I remain in good health. I also thought they were flagrant violations of Forum rules, but apparently not. Oy vey!!!
1) Israel invaded non-Israeli territory in early-1948 2) Israel invaded Egypt in October 1956 3) Israel invaded Jordan on 13 November 1966 4) In April 1967 Israel invaded Syria 5) In June 1967 Israel invaded Egypt 6) The Arab countries invaded Israel in October 1973 7) Israel invaded Lebanon in 1980 and in 1981 (thanks to Face, Yours for helping to point this one out) 8 ) Israel conducted a massive invasion of Lebanon in June 1982 based on false justifications. Some 20 000 people were slaughtered 9) Israel broke an internationally-brokered ceasefire on 4 November 2008, rejected an offer to reinstate that ceasefire, and then in Late-December 2008 invaded Gaza (Operation Cast Lead) massacring some 1400 Gazans
Example 10: Israel’s assassination of Hamas leaders was the main trigger for the Hamas rocket attacks in 2012 and not vice versa. It was Israel who attacked first; Hamas who retaliated. This one is easy because there was a thread on this in February this year. I will quote directly from that - http://www.politicalforum.com/middl...air-force-attack-syria-28.html#post1062242167 Here are the more 'factual' Forum responses to that post: Drew, are you listening? I rest my case on the Israeli attitude. With those FACTS in mind, how would the reasonable person judge the Zionist Apologist claims that it is the "raining of rockets down on Israel" that causes that country to assassinate Hamas officials. Correct - pure Hasbara!! And the brown Sheriff of Washington thereafter underlined Israel's right to defend herself. He too watches Faux News. The real truth seems to stand no chance ...... or does it?.
Yes Bendor, keep up your pathetic defense of the indefensible. Regev clearly admitted that Israel broke the ceasefire. Are you calling Regev a liar?
Mark Regev is the Israeli government's official spokesman. You're a Jew and you don't know this? Unbelievable.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Regev And here he is again admitting that Israel broke the cease fire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM Now deny that.
Israel does not initiate it only retaliates sometimes heavily. Watch this http://www.jerusalemonline.com/israel-news/israel-main-newscast-23-08-2013-1392 http://www.jerusalemonline.com/israel-news/israel-main-newscast-23-08-2013-1392
Except that they have been living in Palestine (their home) for centuries. European Jews, not so much.
This answer doesn't add with your own words - " um...I am a Zionist. a liberal Zionist, but still a Zionist. you have no idea what a Zionist is." Looks like you wanting Jews expelled from Israel isn't very Zionist ... Is it ?
Go unplug your ears, the stupid British reporter cut him in the middle and this is why you get that inane impression...
Sorry. Snakestretcher had his ears unplugged. He is correct: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SILJxPTqjAM - @1:00: BBC interviewer: "Before November 4th there were no Hamas rockets .... for 4 months" Mark Regev: "That is correct" You can check whether my ears were unplugged.
No they shouldn't. Jordan is a Bedouin country = true Arabs.. The Palestinian 'Arabs' in contrast are the descendants of the Canaanites and the Sea-people. So are the Jews and the Palestinians Christians. They are all of the same family; nothing to do with Jordan.
Why not check the last 20 years and give us a report. ONE SINGLE MISSILE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN LOBBED!!!! ISRAEL DOES NOT INITIATE, IT RETALIATES AND SOMETIMES VIOLENTLY...
Definition of Scatology: "The study of faeces" More insults; no facts. The pattern is clearly established. We all know what a poster is who only provides provocative insults and nothing more. The Mods must be on vacation ... at least I hope that is their excuse.
If the shoe fits wear it! It is a waste of time to debate fantasies, go write in a Forum of gullible people, uneducated people...
Is this the width and the lenght of your response malevolent weed?????????? How about this for a change a <REAL VIDEO>? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcbqSUMnZ8A
Here is a copy of an interchange from an adjacent thread that I judge to be more "on-topic" here. Of course not!! Rockets have rained down. The question is WHY. That has been debated elsewhere. For detail I refer you to - http://www.politicalforum.com/middle-east/313440-who-did-invading-borat.html (click) I notice that in that thread you did not refute the facts that: 1) It was Israel's airstikes on Lebanon that caused the PLO to retaliate by firing rockets on northern Israel in 1981 / 1982. Those are bankable facts fully supported by the eye-witness UNIFIL reports. The PLO was retaliating and not Israel as you claim. 2) That the utterly illegal Israeli obstruction of the implementation of the democratic Palestinian 2006 elections did NOT result in rocket fire on Israel. Hamas did NOT retaliate for this Act of War by Israel. 3) After Hamas forced Fatah to hand over power in Gaza, it was Israel who again started conflict by illegally instituting an economic embargo on Gaza. This second hugely aggressive Israeli act still did not result in Hamas attacks on Israel. I call that amazing restraint. 4) Only when the embargo was tightened and the effects became severe on Gaza did Hamas start to retaliate with rocket fire. Notice who is dealing out the aggressive acts and who is doing the retaliating, Jonsa. 5) Then a ceasefire stopped the attacks in June 2008. Hamas ceased all rocket attacks and bent over backwards to stop rogue elements (mainly Fatah) from continuing to fire rockets at Israel - admitted to by senior Israeli officials. But at exactly the same time, while Hamas has achieved 98% compliance, Israel barely reached 20% compliance with her obligations. Who was the bad guy, Jonsa. Who was screwing with peace? 6) Then on 4 November Israel invaded Gaza. This time Hamas did retaliate and "rained rockets down on Israel". And then Israel slaughtered 1400+ Gazans. And you try to make out that it was the Palestinians who were "raining rockets doen on Israel" and it was Israel who was only retaliating? And then we need to perform the same tests on 2012. But why don't you rather help this thread to remain on-topic, and make your claims on the "Who did the invading, Borat" thread. In fact I will post these last two posts there. So yes, I have solid proof that in most cases it is a case of "Israel attacks and the Palestinians retaliate". How does this verifiable version of history differ from the classic Zionist hasbara that you have just promoted, Jonsa?
