If John Kerry had defeated Bush Jr., where would we be?

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...a-will-john-kerrys-loose-lips-save-obama.html

John Kerry is a statesman and a gentleman. If he had defeated the recovering alcoholic, how many Billions of dollars would we have saved by not invading Iraq? How many solders would still be alive? How man innocent Iraqis would still be living?

These are questions to ponder. Thank you

 

Kerry supported the Iraq war, the afghan invasion, Libya, wants a war with syria etc... The last time he spoke out against war he way lying under oath and attributing atrocities to the men who fought by his side. He lied about this in order to fool the public, which is an accepted means of debate among democrats.

Also, your time line is off. Should be about al gore and the trillions wasted on cutting emissions in order to defeat man bear pig.

 

Bitterness and truth are obviously your prison. W has soiled the GOP for YEARS. The party of old white men may never return to the glory and delusion that it once enjoyed.

 

Suggest you go and read some of Kerry's quotes before the 2003 invasion which he supported.

 

Lots of people bought into DICK and W's lies and fabrications. We all know that the "facts" were cooked to suit DICK and Halliburton and to get even with the bad man that tried to kill senior. W and his puppeteer DICK let this country with scars that will take generations to heal.

 

Suggest you go read his quotes before Bush was elected.

But what you are claiming is the Kerry is stupid and was duped?

 

Sorry, the truth is not on your side - accepted means of debate among righties.

 

He admitted he lied to congress about the atrocities he "witnessed" in the Vietnam war. He has supported all the wars you say he was against, (got the votes to prove it), and is for the war in syria and your timeline is still way off. That is the truth. What ever you are working on over there is pure fiction with a bit of time travel thrown in for good measure.

This is a man that gets a spray tan and Botox treatment before selling a war to the public. Integrity is not a big issue.

 

Instead of nonsense and weak insults why don't you tell me where I was wrong in my post? Scared to address facts and all that?

 

I don't think Kerry would have been able to resist the AIPAC/Neocon full court press any better than Bush did, even if he wanted to. Current statements indicate that he would not have wanted to. And if 9/11 had happened on Clinton's watch, he would have succumbed to AIPAC, too.

 

Kerry came later. Why aren't you saying "al gore"?????

It is clear what he would do. Sell out to arab oil men while spending us into green poverty.

 

You are lying unless you can give me a link where Kerry said that he lied.

 

Bush did it because god and Cheney told him to. Kerry would not have had Cheney and was not delusional about god.

 

Nothing would have been different, nothing at all. I thought the election of Obama would have taught that lesson to all but the most dim-witted by now.

Whenever I come to the forums and observe these playground arguments, ("My Dad and beat up your Dad!" "Nuh-uh!") I can only shake my head in disbelieve. It only serves to affirm the two parties have a strangle-hold on this nation, and will never release it's rear naked choke hold until the nation is rendered unconscious...or dead.

 

I don't care about Al Gore. He's from Tennessee.

 

We invaded Iraq in 2003. Kerry went up against Bush in 2004.

 

Here he is saying he didn't make statements he did make and backtracking. You will also notice he stays away from saying he saw them, back tracking a statement you clearly made is the same thing:
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/03/12/hot-air-tv-sen-john-kerry-confronted-about-winter-soldier-ii/

Yeah, first google result was a right wing website. But you show me a taped response that he doesn't back track around from. Besides his own words count.

 

How sad that you follow anything from Michelle Malkin. There is only one person worst than Ann Coulter using shock to promote herself and that person is Michelle Malkin.

Kerry is not back tracking anything. John Mattera is trying to a hatchet job on Kerry. Kerry says that he does know what the Winter Soldier II are doing. But Mattera has his mission and will not take "No!" for an answer.

Kerry repeated stories that were told to him and asked for an investigation. My Lai DID HAPPEN.

It is also a shame that you can easily be fooled by the editing of right wing nuts.

 

She is fine. Also, she is OK by me. But really, it was a video of Kerry in his own words. His own words should count for something, the left wing media outlets aren';t going to play the people they worship making very human errors.

He was for the Iraq war, the Afghan invasion, must have though Vietnam was a good idea when he volunteered, he is for the Syrian conflict, etc.. You find me a war Kerry isn't for at the outset. It is only later he may change his mind, and use anti americanism for his own political gain.

He didn't say it wasn't something he witnessed. My Lai was another thing entirely, he wasn;t recounting that obviously if you listen to his descriptions. He mentioned it a few times, but then went on about how that was regular par for the course for our soldiers.

 

Why bring history into the thread?..........

 

here is what John Kerry said- I am really looking forward to your link where Kerry's said that he lied in this testimony:

https://facultystaff.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/johnkerrytestimony.html

...I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony....


WINTER SOLDIER INVESTIGATION

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the "Winter Soldier Investigation." The term "Winter Soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.

We who have come here to Washington have come here because we f eel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out.


FEELINGS OF MEN COMING BACK FROM VIETNAM

...In our opinion, and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam, nothing which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia, or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart....


WHAT WAS FOUND AND LEARNED IN VIETNAM

We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever, but also we found that the Vietnamese whom we had enthusiastically molded after our own image were hard put to take up the fight against the threat we were supposedly saving them from.

We found most people didn't even know the difference between communism and democracy. They only wanted to work in rice paddies without helicopters strafing them and bombs with napalm burning their villages and tearing their country apart. They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone on peace, and they practiced the art of survival by siding with whichever military force was present at a particular time, be it Vietcong, North Vietnamese, or American.

We found also that all too often American men were dying in those rice paddies for want of support from their allies. We saw first hand how money from American taxes was used for a corrupt dictatorial regime. We saw that many people in this country had a one-sided idea of who was kept free by our flag, as blacks provided the highest percentage of casualties. We saw Vietnam ravaged equally by American bombs as well as by search and destroy missions, as well as by Vietcong terrorism, and yet we listened while this country tried to blame all of the havoc on the Viet Cong.

We rationalized destroying villages in order to save them. We saw America lose her sense of morality as she accepted very coolly a My Lai and refused to give up the image of American soldiers who hand out chocolate bars and chewing gum.

We learned the meaning of free fire zones, shooting anything that moves, and we watched while America placed a cheapness on the lives of orientals.

We watched the U.S. falsification of body counts, in fact the glorification of body counts. We listened while month after month we were told the back of the enemy was about to break. We fought using weapons against "oriental human beings," with quotation marks around that. We fought using weapons against those people which I do not believe this country would dream of using were we fighting in the European theater or let us say a non-third-world people theater, and so we watched while men charged up hills because a general said that hill has to be taken, and after losing one platoon or two platoons they marched away to leave the high for the reoccupation by the North Vietnamese because we watched pride allow the most unimportant of battles to be blown into extravaganzas, because we couldn't lose, and we couldn't retreat, and because it didn't matter how many American bodies were lost to prove that point. And so there were Hamburger Hills and Khe Sanhs and Hill 881's and Fire Base 6's and so many others.


VIETNAMIZATION

Now we are told that the men who fought there must watch quietly while American lives are lost so that we can exercise the incredible arrogance of Vietnamizing the Vietnamese....

Each day to facilitate the process by which the United States washes her hands of Vietnam someone has to give up his life so that the United States doen'st have to admit something that the entire world already knows, so that we can't say they we have made a mistake. Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the first President to lose a war."

We are asking Americans to think about that because how do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? But we are trying to do that, and we are doing it with thousands of rationalizations, and if you read carefully the President's last speech to the people of this country, you can see that he says and says clearly:

But the issue, gentlemen, the issue is communism, and the question is whether or not we will leave that country to the Communists or whether or not we will try to give it hope to be a free people.

But the point is they are not a free people now under us. They are not a free people, and we cannot fight communism all over the world, and I think we should have learned that lesson by now....


REQUEST FOR ACTION BY CONGRESS

We are asking here in Washington for some action, action from the Congress of the United States of America which as the power to raise and maintain armies, and which by the Constitution also has the power to declare war.

We have come here, not to the President, because we believe that this body can be responsive to the will of the people, and we believe that the will of the people says that we should be out of Vietnam now....


WHERE IS THE LEADERSHIP?

We are also here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently, where are the leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We are here to ask where are McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatric, and so many others. Where are they now that we, the men whom they sent off to war, have returned? These are commanders who have deserted their troops, and there is no more serious crime in the law of war. The Army says they never leave their wounded.

The Marines say they never leave even their dead. These men have left all the casualties and retreated behind a pious shield of public rectitude. They have left the real stuff of their reputations bleaching begin them in the sun in this country....

What part about John Kerry's testimony do you find objectionable?

When did John Kerry say that he lied during his testimony?

 

That video was edited but, of course, you think that is great. You did not hear where he said something about "According to the stories..." or that he said that these incidents should be investigated.

I do feel sorry for you that you can be played so easily by the right wing nuts.

Yes, he did but they edited that out.

My Lai was NOT another thing entirely. It was proof that atrocities were happening and I heard of other atrocities from my friends that had been in Vietnam at that time. Vietnam sucked when it came to both sides. War sucks and bad things are done. Conditions during wars doesn't allow soldiers to be moral. When everyone around you can be an enemy, caca happens.

 

He lied about the stories too. AN investigation later turned up that most of the people were imposters and using false names. Others didnt exist. Look it up, Kerry is a liar, voted for the Iraq war, voted for the Afghan invasion, wants a war with Syria etc.. The whole thread is BS. If you want to argue Kerry didn't talk smack about the soldiers in Vietnam, that is fine. There is an hour of audio recording that says otherwise, and a pile of photos with him and Hanoi Jane.

 

Well just prove it.

here was your claim:
"He admitted he lied to congress about the atrocities he "witnessed" in the Vietnam war. "

Prove it- you accuse Democrats of being liars- and yet you throw out this accusation and seem to be having a hard time backing it up.

Tell me- what about his testimony do you think is false?

What do you think he lied about- specifically?


Step and prove what you say or this claim of yours
He lied about this in order to fool the public, which is an accepted means of debate among democrats.

will seem particularly ironic....

 

Think about who your sources are? What lies? Give us something from other people who are not your right wing nutcases.

I have personal knowledge of the atrocities from friends. Do you think that they would come back from Vietnam to tell me lies?