Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by TheBlackPearl, Sep 24, 2013.

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  1. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that the Bible says anywhere that the Earth was flat. But I do think that science has finally caught up to what the Bible says happened. How is that antiquated?
     
  2. Stagnant

    Stagnant Banned

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    At this point you've been shown to be wrong on this multiple times.
     
  3. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean mythology vs methodology? "Proved wrong every time it's been held up to scrutiny" is a bit of a generalization. Not sure what kind of scrutiny you are talking about.

    I know very few people who would be of the belief that God created the Earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. This and many of the Biblical stories are understood my most to be metaphors and parables based on historical events, passed on through generations verbally, and more than likely embellished through the ages.
     
  4. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    I agree with PatriotNews, students of theology and even most Sundry school students know the bible was written in different literary styles including parable, historical, poem, etc etc. However, interpretation (aka bible interpretation hermeneutics) of the bibles verses aren't a precise science to say the least! That said I believe much of genesis and other OT books was written as metaphor, historical a bit of parable and other styles even though the new testament and Jesus was the poster child for parable. Poster child was not meant to be disrespectful btw. Anyway, with metaphor in mind this passage comes to mind; 2 Peter “But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day”.

    reva
     
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  5. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    A very long post of avoidance of the actually posts. This doesn't address what Paul and I were discussing at all.
    Paul said that if you suggest science can be wrong the atheists will mud sling.
    A short post citing an example of this would suffice.
    You have not done so.
    Why not go to the simplest argement. One of evidence and undeniable proof?
    I haven't seen an atheist state that science is infallible.
    Just cite the post where they state this and then sling epithets at the believer and your point is made.
    Good luck.
     
  6. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    Of course it does, and says the sun revolves around the earth, and that the earth was created before the sun, and all kinds of ridiculous notions.
    And your argument is the perfect one that shows that to cling to scripture as infallible is not only absurd but actually counter productive.
    And you were absolutely right.
     
  7. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I've had several people telling me that there is the evidence is proof of the Big Bang.
    Why would you say that?
    That is why it is called a theory. Not that a theory cannot later be proven to be factual later however.
    I get the feeling you haven't read the bible nor understand its usefulness or purpose.
    I agree that it is widely accepted as a theory, but many also accept it as a fact.
    What we know now will be dwarfed by what we will know a thousand years from now.
     
  8. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    Just like what we know dwarfs what they knew in biblical times.
    Right there with you!
     
  9. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    "Big Bang" is a theory about what happened. SOMETHING happened, for sure.
    If someone says evidence is proof of a theory, they are mistaken.


    Because it is so.
    No, not so. One can never prove there could not be an exception or a relevant detail contrary to the theory. It is the intrinsic nature of a theory that it cannot ever be proved.


    I have read it thru twice. Usefullness is for the individual. Purpose, hmm. Perspective on that varies with whether one believes in the suprnatural.

    The bible stands up to scrutiny if one is very very liberal in adapting what it says to what is empirically demosntrable.

    Theory may be a fact, but it can never be shown to be a fact.

    Of course, but my idea was that theories based on careful examination of actual facts will never be embarrassing, while faith in that which has zero data should have gone out with the stone age.
     
  10. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Wow, so much ignorance in one post. See how I did that? You called my post ignorant and I did the same to yours. Let's skip the characterizations in the future and talk about the facts.

    So you have faith that the Big Bang is fact? I think there is plenty of evidence that Jesus walked the Earth, so there is your proof that God exists. I think that you are wrong in saying that the Big Bang is a proved event:

     
  11. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    So why do you overlook the countless facts that show that the earth is very ancient, and life forms as we know them today developed step by step over hundreds of millions of years?

    It seems as if you are suspended somewhere between realizing the bible just isnt correct / doesnt mean what it says / is only partially accurate at best, and having to put it ahead of all that science
    or other empirical information provides.

    is that not so?
     
  12. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    I will accept it as as theory that the bible was written in code that indicates that the ToE is correct.

    I dont think the order of creation is correct, tho, and there are two different accounts with two different orders.
     
  13. Stagnant

    Stagnant Banned

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    This made me laugh quite hard. Christian persecution in the western world amounts quite literally to "you do not get these privileges that you never had any reason to have in the first place that no other religion is provided". :lol:
     
  14. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    You are right. I make that mistake. So do a lot of people. I will try not to be like the others.
    Tnx for mentioning it.

    hmm. "Faith" as in, provisional belief that it may be correct, has a very large body of dada.
    "God" has none. There is a difference.

    Sheesh, of course I do. I never said it was anything but a theory, and any theory could be wrong.


    "God" isnt even a theory. its an assertion of facts not in evidence.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think they talk about persecution because the bible predicts it, and, because you get a special deal in heaven if you've been persecuted. So they kind of hope for it, and see it where it doesnt exist.
     
  15. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    The Bible also predicted the coming of the Messiah.
    :roflol:
    The Bible is not meant to be a textbook on science. It is historical and a theological collection of stories and essays regarding the Jewish peoples and their relationship to God.

    Genesis is remarkably consistent with both the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of evolution.

    The flood story is consistent with the known event of the flooding of the Black Sea.
     
  16. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, but you are wrong. I have not been proven wrong even once.

    Apology accepted in advance.
     
  17. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I'm mistaken. But I find it odd that you talk of all these ridiculous notions yet cannot quote chapter and verse where you heard these ridiculous notions. What chapter and verse says that the Earth is flat?

    Secondly, I am not saying that the bible is infallible. I have said consistently that the bible is historical literary metaphorical stories.
     
  18. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Yet the Bible is remarkably accurate.
     
  19. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    It may not be exact, but I would say there are few inconsistencies. One might dispute mammals vs birds, but I would say the order is correct.
     
  20. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    A lot of it comes from people confusing sources and concepts. We are taught the opposition to Galileo was based on Church scriptures. People then assume the Catholic Church supported the geocentric model on religious grounds. The reality is the Church supported a 1500 year old theory. When presented with the new theory the question asked was what does it do any better than the old theory. The answer being is nothing, nothing at all.

    The Church liked Ptolomey's theory because it showed the balance and form of Aristotelean thinking that unfortunately the Church was enchanted by. Even Newton referenced this when he wrote his ground breaking work on gravity. In the preface he offers the proof in his maths that it brings order to chaos, and puts all right in God's universe. The argument about a flat Earth is equally vacuous. The Greeks wrote a series of proofs in around 500BC to show the Earth was not flat. You actually would be hard pressed to find a time in the last 2500 years when the concept of a flat Earth was the norm.

    But in our modern, enlightened world, we dont like the idea the ancients were not the dumb arses we want them to be
     
  21. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    Gotta disagree on a a couple of points.

    An awful lot of people today think it is flat. I've a dear friend from the Philippines, who grew up in a rural village. She knows better now, but her mom never could be convinced that the earth isnt flat.

    Also... i dont know anyone who thinks the ancients were dumb. But, they often were profoundly misinformed.
     
  22. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    You would think that a well educated populace would understand these issues and verify what they are saying before they make such wrong headed assertions. Such is not the case. I seem to spend most of my time schooling these people on the errors of their thinking and of their facts which are easily verifiable with this new thing called the internet and Google.
     
  23. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    All evidence to the contrary.
    LOL!
     
  24. taikoo

    taikoo Banned

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    You are sure wrong about this:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well who is to argue with the accuracy of metaphor ?
     
  25. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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