Part 7 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Suppose the flood actually happened. How long do you think it would take for pools of fresh water to appear and become stabilized to the point where they were no longer contaminated with salt from the ocean?

How did Noah supply all of the animals with fresh water while he was on the sealed-up ark and what did they drink once they landed?

If sea water covered all of the mountains how long would it take for all of the water to recede and where did that water go?

 

Here we go again back to the flood story. Any amount of water that cover a certain area of land is consider flood, a 2 feet, 3 feet, 5 feet, 100 feet or 1000 feet of water are floods.
Faith tells the unbeliever no such flood happen the same faith that they deny exist when it comes to believing in God.

 

The fairy tale says that the water covered the tallest mountains. That's the main part that people won't buy.

 

Many ancient sites have never been flooded.. Floods leave sediment.. and geologists can measure it.

 

The shift of tectonic plates create hill and mountains ... that's why you find evidence of marine life on mountaintops.. often 30 million years old.

Pakistan has a brand new Island that popped u out of the ocean after a quake.

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/10/06/new-photos-pakistan-earthquake-island/

 

Yes, we can. Going from the story of the bible, the list of things that demonstrate that Noah's Flood definitively did not happen is myriad:
- Geologic record: floods, especially major, cataclysmic floods leave clear signs in the geologic record. Given our understanding of geology, if there was actually a world-wide flood which covered the tallest mountains for 40 days, we'd see that.
- Population genetics: if only a handful of a species survive, then this leaves clear genetic markers for a very long time. You end up with so-called "genetic bottlenecks", where the genetic variance of the species is cut down to a tiny fraction of what it was. This is part of why interbreeding is so nasty after multiple generations. We see this in Cheetahs due to a bottleneck about a hundred thousand years ago. If the entire population of every species on earth was reduced to between two and fourteen, then we would not see this bottleneck in the Cheetah population, because every species would have a far more severe bottleneck.
- Fish: virtually no fish can survive in both fresh and salt water. A flood of that level would have killed all of the fish in the ocean due to mixing. Interestingly, this is exactly the kind of thing that a bronze-age writer would not have known about. We would not have had any saltwater fish. At all.
- Travel Distance: Most species we know today have very specific diets and climates in which they can survive. Most of them would not have survived a journey from the middle east to where they are exclusively located today. And the margin for error is tiny, mind you - one dead sloth on the ten-thousand mile journey from Israel to South America means no more three-toed sloths at all. And what would they eat? After 40 days of being covered in miles of water, the earth would be barren. No vegetation would have grown. And if the flood did lay down sediment (as many here assert), there would have been nothing for anyone to eat.

I could keep going, but those four should be more than sufficient.

Well, you're halfway right. Polystrate fossils is what you're talking about, and it is theorized that the sediment for them was laid down in flood events. Multiple, small flood events. Potholer54 covers it really well. What's more, the idea that a flood of that magnitude would simply cover these trees, rather than uproot and destroy them, is hard to take seriously. And even if that was the case, the sediment laid down by a single, massive flood would look nothing like the sediment laid down by multiple, small flooding events, like in a flood plain or river delta. And the latter is what we observe - not one massive strata that the trees grow through, but many small layers.

Do you know anything about plate tectonics? The mountain ranges in question were underwater in the past - the Himalayas, for example, were underwater for a long period of time - they started to fold up during the cretaceous. Even better, there has been strata of limestone found near the peak - a dead giveaway that, at some point, it was not only underwater, but underwater for a very long time, as limestone is made up of the fossilized remains of marine coral. Essentially, we're not finding a single small layer of marine fossils (what you could expect in the very best case scenario, but not likely from a flood of that magnitude), but the entire mountain being full of it. What happened, did the water permeate the rock and take the fossils with it?

No, you don't. You have horribly misunderstood evidence that doesn't imply what you think it implies. And this (*)(*)(*)(*) ain't new. You think it's a mystery to scientists how polystrate trees and marine fossils on mountaintops got there? And do you think for a minute that the people peddling this (*)(*)(*)(*) to you haven't had it pointed out to them that they're misinterpreting evidence that was explained over 100 years ago? (Seriously, in the case of one famous creationist, he takes a picture of a polystrate tree from a 100-year-old book, then tells his congregation that there's no explanation for it... When the book explains on the very same page how such things could happen.)

No. There is no evidence that such a flood ever occurred, and there is immense evidence that it did not. It has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that there was no global flood within any point in the existence of the hominid line, throwing the idea of Noah's flood right out the window, and with it, the idea of biblical literalism being valid. I understand that this is a matter that you take very personally, but the facts just don't add up. I'd respect it a little bit if you were honest enough to say, "You know, you're right - there is absolutely no evidence for Noah's flood and tons of evidence that it didn't happen. I take it on faith that God fills in all the plotholes, but acknowledge that this is merely my own faith, and that the evidence does not add up without said faith", but you aren't. You just keep rattling off the same bull(*)(*)(*)(*) creationist claims that have been debunked so many times.

 

Here is what I said:


saying that nothing has absolutely been proved

Im not having any problem. I agreed that you think nothing has been proven one way or the other.

Im pointing out that your statement is yet another of your sanctimonious falsehoods.

You were wrong in everything you said about flood evidence, and wrong on the conclusion, it has in fact been disproved.

Your ignorance of that fact is deliberate negligence. Good luck explaining how that is exemplary of good
"Christian' decorum.

 

The whole thing is the main part, but that aside, water to the top of Everest is a tall tale, so the goddists say the mountais rose since then.

But either way, lets see how this works. A heavy rain some way bring mud and sea shells far inland, and lefts it to the tops of however high the mountains were then. (but not the volcanoes or granite mountains)

Then this mud settles out, and as the water goes down, it turns into solid stone. And not as a layer draped over the peak like chocolate on a sundae, but, all the way thru! Weird.

 

Everything in the Bible from the New Testament to the Old Testament at the time the Hebrews were out of Egypt starting from Leviticus have all been establish to conform with factual events and history some parts in the Genesis and Exodus have been establish as well such as the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah their destruction as describe in the Bible, archaeologist have now found the location and remains of those cities and are starting research what happen to cause their sudden destruction. Other facts establish are the consistency of the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, Philistines and existence of cities such as Jericho, and the many other tribes as mention in the Bible the events that led to establishment of the nation of Israel. Other parts of the Bible such as Genesis that include the creation of the universe, men's origin and events such as Noah's flood are still closely being research just like scientist are still closely researching the God-particle. As far as Noah's flooding scientist do agree that such global natural catastrophe can happen in fact that is what they believe happen as to how continents were form or how people from one end of the globe were able to reach the other end it was because they believe the world was once a huge continent connected by land bridges this land bridges all collapse suddenly just like the dinosaurs suddenly disappeared from the face of this world and their theory is that a global natural catastrophe occur. Such theory conform with the Noah's flood the only thing that needs to be establish is the time line.

 

Dinosaurs? There are no dinosaurs in the bible. They never existed.

 

The five cities of the plain were prosperous and well watered... but the whole area is riddled with fault lines and subject to earthquakes.

The catastrophe was a thousand years before .. The story is a credit to the story teller, but it had nothing to do with Lot or the Bible story.

The histories you refer to from Babylon etc are much earlier myths that the Hebrews borrowed from to create their own history.

There were no sudden land bridge collapse that killed all the dinosaurs.. Archeologists and geologists don't run around with the Bible in hand to prove the Bible.

- - - Updated - - -

I have one .. He lives with me in a large birdcage .

 

Which is utterly uninteresting to the proposition of biblical literalism, or indeed much of anything at all. Also, citation would be nice, because last I checked, evidence of Hebrews being enslaved en masse in Egypt is essentially non-existent. I can't find any citation of archaeologists finding Sodom and Gomorrah that has even the slightest whiff of scientific rigor to it, so it would be nice if you could point me in the right direction.

And of course, you can provide citation for these facts, I assume.

First of all, sure, scientists are still researching the tree of life and the origin of the universe. But with more and more information, they're able to do so with a clearer focus. The idea that the universe is 10,000 years old, or that there ever was a flood have long since been discarded by all but the dumbest and most dishonest. To say that there are still people "researching" Noah's flood is like saying that there are still people "researching" the shape of the earth. Those people are nutters with absolutely no relevance and nothing interesting to say.

Okay, first of all, just because a global natural catastrophe is possible does not mean that Noah's flood is possible. Indeed, we've been over this - there was no such global flood within any part of hominid evolution. At that point, I don't care if there were various localized floods; the bible has been demonstrated to be wrong. Second of all, citations would be nice, as well as the time frame you're talking about. The world was one giant continent for a long time (Pangaea); but that was hundreds of millions of years ago. What are you even talking about? You're glossing over eons of history here.

 

Many cultures had a tree of life.

The Tree of Life as a Universal Symbol

The Tree of Life is a universal symbol found in many spiritual and mythological traditions around the world. In various cultures it is known as the Cosmic Tree, the World Tree and the Holy Tree. The Tree of Life symbolizes many things, including wisdom, protection, strength, bounty, beauty, and redemption. This wise and holy Tree is like the Creator as it sustains creation with its abundant fruit, protection and generativity.

continued

http://www.treeoflifeteachings.com/tree-of-life/

 

There was no "land bridge" between continents. That is like calling the line between Kansas and Oklahoma a "bridge". The so-called Bering land bridge was wider than the whole state of Alaska is now.

- - - Updated - - -

Let me help you out with where the water went. A wind took it to Neptune, where it shines to this day as a warning beacon against incoming rogue angels.

 

How is this relevant or worth bringing up?

 

Simple math?

"Universal" means all that Noah could see. Only his personal "world" was flooded.

Present high mountains have been there for millions of years and were as high before the flood as they are now.

There simply was not enough water to cover them all (Mt. Everest is 29,000 feet high. The flood waters would have to be almost six miles deep). "If that much water covered all the earth, where could it possibly have gone after the flood?"

- - - Updated - - -

Another poster brought it up and thought is was unique to Genesis.

 

Humans claim that there is 14.5 billion years of human history. Yet humans also claim that they know of all kind of Catastrophes to say that Mt. Everest cannot be covered by water.
Humans don't know what gravity, time/space and etc. are in nature. Yet humans also claim that it is impossible for water to cover the Mt. Everest (sound as if humans already understood what gravity/time/space/ are to draw a conclusion)

That's the factual situation.

 

Humans claim the earth was flat before the flood.. no mountains.. Yet we know the mountains are millions of years old.. The Bible doesn't say the earth was flat.

Do you know the meaning of didactic literature?

 

You don't even know what time is, how do you know that things are millions of years old ?

To put it another way,
by the assumption that time is stable and evenly distributed and evenly progressive, and
by the assumption that earth is in its current space/position all the times, and
by the assumption that the decay of the radioactive elements is constantly in the same pattern now and the past, and
by the assumption that.....

human said that mountains are millions of years old.

Is that what you are trying to say ?

 

Because I grew up in an educated family... Geologists, archeologists... and I have seen core samples (lots of them) and I know why seashells end up on mountain tops.

Even the ancient Jews who set down these stories knew they were didactic literature... NOT history or science.

 

To put it another way,
by the assumption that time is stable and evenly distributed and evenly progressive, and
by the assumption that earth is in its current space/position all the times, and
by the assumption that the decay of the radioactive elements is constantly in the same pattern now and the past, and
by the assumption that.....

human said that mountains are millions of years old.

Is that what you are trying to say ?