9 Insurers Exit Nebraska's Health Insurance Market

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by TheImmortal, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

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    Agreed. The left has been screwing over health insurance consumers for years with their protectionism.
     
  2. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    You're gonna need to substantiate that - oh yeah, that's right, you can't.
     
  3. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

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    Other then nuclear energy can you name a more regulated field? Oh yeah, that's right you can't. Here is one that will be raising costs:

    Medical Device Excise Tax

    On Dec. 5, 2012, the IRS and the Department of the Treasury issued final regulations on the new 2.3-percent medical device excise tax (IRC §4191) that manufacturers and importers will pay on their sales of certain medical devices starting in 2013. On Dec. 5, 2012, the IRS and the Department of the Treasury also issued Notice 2012-77, which provides interim guidance on certain issues related to the medical device excise tax. Additional information is available on the Medical Device Excise Tax page and Medical Device Excise Tax FAQs on IRS.gov.

    http://apps.irs.gov/app/scripts/exi...inspection.federalregister.gov/2013-20769.pdf
     
  4. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    Originally Posted by johnmayo
    Agreed. The left has been screwing over health insurance consumers for years with their protectionism.

    This is unneccessarily difficult, so I highlighted the part that you are obliged to substantiate. Your little story about "a" tax on "certain medical devices" does not do this.
     
  5. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    The health system in America has been screwed over by healthcare service providers and healthcare insurance companies grab for profits over the misery of the sick and infirmed.
     
  6. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    Did you see the documentary, where a legal testement was given by a female Dr, who stated that her job within the HC insurance company was to find ways of not paying out on premiums. She was paid huge amounts of money to prevent an insurance company from complying with the policy. She was in tears during it, as she had subsequently had an attack of conscience and realised her job was to save lives, not to help HC insurance companies make more money, by not paying out when someone's ill.
     
  7. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

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    One of many. Did you get back to me on a field more regulated?

    That does raise the cost of insurance and health care like every other excise tax.

    What are you looking for specifically? Lines from the federal registrar?

    - - - Updated - - -

    We get better health services then you. Far better treatment. When was the last time you were here?
     
  8. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    I'm still trying to figure out the relevance.

    No, I want you to prove that "The left has been screwing over health insurance consumers ". The LEFT, not the RIGHT, but the LEFT.

    Now either man up or shut up.
     
  9. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Yeah and you can have doctor ranked #148 cutting open your chest and working on your heart if you want to. I'd prefer to pay for doctor ranked #2 to be cutting open my chest and working on my heart.
     
  10. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    You're suggesting that there is somehow something wrong with Dutch Dr's? That somehow American Dr's are better? Is that there that "US exceptionalism" I keep hearing about? Because I heard Boeing could do with some ;)
     
  11. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    "The government of the Netherlands has repeatedly stated that competition is a guiding principle of its reform. The theory has been that competition will create a sense of value, which in turn will drive down health care costs. This focus on value is in line with research such as that from McKinsey & Company, which has found that in combination with an irrational supply of health care—such as the administration of unnecessary medical tests—the failure of the American system to “provide sufficient incentives to patients and consumers to be value-conscious in their demand decisions” is “the overriding cause of high U.S. health care costs.”[29]

    Despite the Dutch government’s intention to curb costs by creating a competitive market in which consumers demand value, the market that has emerged is by definition an oligopoly. The nearly 88 percent market share captured by the four largest insurance companies since the reform is well in excess of the baseline concentration ratio for an oligopoly, which economists put as low as 40 percent and as high as 60 percent. Even the most forgiving economist would consider the Dutch market highly uncompetitive.

    More definitively, the Dutch system’s Herfindahl–Hirschman Index (HHI), which is used by the United States Department of Justice and Federal Trade Commission to calculate market concentration, places Dutch health care in the category of least competitive markets."


    Not that there's anything wrong with Dutch doctors... however, they have destroyed the very premise upon which they built their market. You cannot build competition solely from government regulation. Those two concepts are mutually exclusive. What will happen is exactly what you see happening with the Dutch system. A REMOVAL of competition and the power over the healthcare system concentrated within the hands of a very few. Once those very few start to recognize that they have control and that the Dutch government has created massive barriers to entry for their competitors, they will start jacking up the prices and decreasing quality because the people will have nowhere else to go.

    Not to mention, the Dutch are one of the VERY FEW examples of countries which pay their doctors nearly as much as we do. Which btw is the only thing that keeps them even remotely competitive with us.

    I'd also like to point out, the Dutch are providing healthcare for a TOTAL of 16.7 million people... that's if they provided it to EVERYONE... which they do not. We have 5 cities in the USA which combined has more people than the Dutch altogether. There's a huge difference.
     
  12. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All the brain damaged left wingers that think the insurance companies were bad are about to get slapped down by the leftwing b'crats in Obama's IRS. At least insurance companies didnt have the power to empty your bank and savings account that take away your personal property.
     
  13. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And when Obamacare screws up and leaves a pair of scissors in your body and sews you back up... who are you going to sue? The Fed? I don't think so. The people who work for the Fed? I don't think so. The people the Fed supports with their healthcare funds? I don't think so.
     
  14. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    Again: my HC policy covers me for the entire world, minus the USA. Why? Because my policy would triple if I included it.

    I'm covered for being airlifted out of jungles anywhere in the world, but I add one country; the US, and my policy triples. This policy difference has existed a very long time.

    Again: You have not had a sensible HC system for way way longer than Obamacare. You had 40million Americans not insured, not because they didn't want it, but because they couldn't afford it. Why can they not afford it? Because yours is a system designed primarily to extract money.
     
  15. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Why the hell should we cover you? We have hundreds of millions of people here who need coverage and many of which have to receive subsidies to get it. Of COURSE it's going to cost more to add us to your coverage. What the hell kind of nonsense is that. AND IT SHOULD cost you much more to add us to your coverage. In fact, you shouldn't get coverage here at all unless you're paying into OUR system.

    I mean the American healthcare system is SOOOOO bad according to people like you...why the hell would you want coverage here anyway.
     
  16. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    Oh christ this is difficult. Believe it or not I'm not asking you to cover me. I'm saying if I want to extend my policy to cover the bills I would receive from US medical care, it would result in ME paying triple on my policy.

    I hope to god this makes sense now.

    This means that the actual cost of HC in the US is far far higher than anywhere else in the world. Now of course the general response is that your HC is simply better, but it is certainly not 3x better. It's just 3x more expensive because it's run for profit and not for HC.
     
  17. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    No... I mean why should we spend our resources to cover you? Why should our doctors waste their time treating you, when there's an American that needs treatment? Why should our drugs, beds, sheets, hospitals, rooms, electricity, time, nurses, administration, etc etc be wasted on you when there's an American that it could be used for? IF you are going to receive the incredible quality of service americans have then you need to do one of two things. Either you need to get away from that socialist healthcare system you're touting and start partaking in a for-profit venture... or you need to pay extra, pay a premium for the privilege of using ours.
     
  18. JohnnyMo

    JohnnyMo Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    It's known as pride. Pride drives quality much more than profit, IMO.
     
  19. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    1. I have a private HC policy - how on earth is this socialism?
    2. You're companies would love to treat me, because they could charge my HC insurance policy.

    Really, this free market stuff seems to have passed you by mate.
     
  20. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    I said the system you're touting... the Netherland system.

    And yes, they'd love to treat you so they can charge you extra. But my point is, you shouldn't whine and complain about paying extra for our coverage. You're paying a premium because we are the best and you shouldn't qualify for taking our resources anyway. If you don't like it... go to the Dutch and tell them to fix you.
     
  21. Micketto

    Micketto New Member Past Donor

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    They will have plenty of time spending 5 hours in their waiting rooms, after waiting 4 months for an appointment, to think about it.
     
  22. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    I'm not whining, when I go to the US it's business and someone else pays my US cover. I'm trying to explain to you (and this is far more difficult than it should be), that you system was REALLY broken before Obamacare. Because it's primarily run for profit and not for HC. Jesus I regularly see the invoices for US hospitals posted on the web; the costs are insane and clearly a rip off.
     
  23. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    WTF are you talking about? There is no "government option". The government is providing no insurance to anybody. All insurance is still provided by private insurers.

    Resolve your confusion about the facts and then see if your complaint still makes sense.
     
  24. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    What's the point of having 'best' healthcare services when not everyone can afford it.

    When was the last time you experienced healthcare services out of the US. Look,,, if the American healthcare system wasn't broken, ObamaCare would have never been introduced.
     
  25. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    Aren't Americans such wonderful sharing caring people, full of humanity and good will to their fellow man?
     

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