Do you think fascism come back in Occident?

Are you referring to the obviously fake videotape which even an unbiased six year-old child could see is a fake? It has has been discredited as such by the West's foremost expert on Osama bin Laden, Professor Bruce Lawrence.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/osama-bin-laden-responsible-for-the-9-11-attacks-where-is-the-evidence/15892

Excellent. Did you ask him why he ignored the law of mechanical equilibrium? Did you also ask him why he believes a perimeter of 47 core support columns all failed at precisely the same instant, in order to initiate the entirely symmetrical collapse? Did you ask him how WTC 7 could have fallen 105 feet in full freefall?

No, I simply think you're lying about who sanctioned the official story and what their motives were. It is quite literally absurd to argue that there was a legitimate 9/11 investigation. Two hundred eye-witnesses reported secondary devices or that they witnessed a controlled demolition, yet NIST tested for no type of explosive or pyrotechnic -- completely standard tests when investigating a crime.

This proves that your argument is farcical. You can make all the false appeals to authority that you like, but it will not change the obvious absurdity of your physics-defying argument.

 

Agreed. The comparison between the Tea Party and the NF is incorrect. As I understand it, the NF opposes foreign workers and immigrants, and wishes to maintain the integrity of French culture. (I'm sure there's much more, but that's most of what we hear in the US.) The Tea Party is not a party; it's a loose association of hundreds of groups with similar beliefs. It doesn't run its own candidates for office, or have a central decision making body. The Tea Party groups are based on affirmation of the interests and core values of the United States, not on opposition to anyone, except those who are hostile to the interests and values of the US. There is no more peaceable group in US politics. So oppose the NF if you will, but please leave the Tea Party out of it.

Here, for your information, is the Mission Statement of the Morris County, New Jersey, Tea Party, to which I belong. Please read it and tell me why you believe it's a call for war. It will of course offend those who worship the State as their ancestors worshiped God, but Statists ought not be given free rein.

"We the Morris County Tea Party, a public citizens' group, are dedicated to supporting the US Constitution and public policy that adheres to the principles of personal responsibility, individual liberty, limited government and free markets.

Insofar as all Americans must live within their financial means, so must our government. Furthermore, through our outreach and rallies, we will show people they are not alone in their frustrations about the bad policies coming from Washington and Trenton.

Our goal is a united voice. We the people call for real, honest and ethical government for the good of our children, our families, our community and our country. Liberty and Freedom for all."

 

It' s fake.

The real socialisme (marxism) isn' t fascist. The real socialism never existed on earth. But in 70' s USA was like South of Africa, very racists with KKK and USA sold oil to nazist during all the war!
I' m happy to see patriotism in USA but when they make war for oil, i think they like fascism. Hitler wasn' t socialist. He was monster, the worth man of humanity who killed jewish, communists, gays. Mussolini wasn' t socialist coz' he hunted and killed communists.
The russian empire created goulags. All empires in humanity' s history existed coz' the had slaves and people didn' t have rights at all. They worked all the time and died at job (Louis 14, Henri 8, Napoleon, Piotr the great, Nicolas 2 etc etc etc)...
USA are a weak empire (debts!!!) and they put 47 000 000 people at street coz' subprimes. The american dream is a dream, yes. You sick, u have a cancer and u don' t have money? Ok, die! So much poverty there during banksters crush the world economy. The american economy have big risk to fail soon... USA hate socialism but they need to use keynes' s way make investment in industries and in officials workers for devlopment.
If no investment, no devlopment and ur economy will die!
Banksters want all american' s wealth... They buy state' s capital (houses, industries) and they give "fake money" to government. In Europe they do same. These guys want all and when they can' t have more they destroy they take more anyway. 50 000 000 people in USA eat with food tickets, a lot live in cars, in street.... This system will crush, this system become fascist. A real politic must put these banksters in prison. Every people need same justice and same rights for all. So much poor people and some who controls all and have all. It isn' t normal. Capitalism makes fascism.

USSR was an autocraty. They did mistakes but they do good too. If i must choose in second war between nazist and soviets i would choose soviets !!!! It' s clear. If i must choose between USSR and USA during 60' s ? I don' t know, coz' both are attractive. But if i must choose today between USA and Russia, i would choose Russia coz' economy is better, everypeople have roof and food for live, little taxes to pay, no debts... France? France is finished. Her boss is bank, banksters do all they want here. But they don' t do all they want in Russia. Coz' Vladimir Putin.
Coz of that, Occident hates Putin, but he' s so strong for fail him. Also american central agency have projects for him, i' m sure ((*)(*)(*)(*)(*) riots, buy revolution there... russian people will be stupid like irakians, like talibans? We' ll see).

 

The only right way in politic is direct democraty and referendums. The first direct democraty was in Greece 2500 years ago... We didn' t make big progress since this time...

 

Thanks for this language of thruth!

 

Obama is a good guy but he' s not the boss. Coz' big boss is FED and private banks like Goldman Sachs.

 

Indeed, more than six million people voted for Marine le Pen. What exactly do you mean by 'crushing fascism'? Not letting these six million people vote for what they want? Use political violence to discourage them?

Getting rid of democracy, in order to 'save' democracy. Ignoring human rights, in order to 'preserve' them.

No thank you, I'd rather not.

Cesspool indeed. But I wouldn't say the factor stirring up the people is 'neoliberalism' but rather multiculturalism. Europe still has the most extensive welfare systems, not much has changed by that. France's muslim population though, has risen to 5-10% in recent times. I think it's obvious that such sudden demographic moves will have an effect, and obviously there's some cultural friction going on.

That's roman salutes and fasces. You need to understand that roman salutes are not inherently fascist. People just thought romans were cool, and also that they used that salute (which have been proven wrong iirc). Needless to say it was before ww2. And fasces is an old roman symbol of authority; the bundle of rods that an officer would use to beat disobidient people with iirc. It's found in many western institutions' emblems. Just look up the french armed forces'.

Doesn't fit with what Hitler did. The germans had a good welfare system under hitler.

Nazism is national socialism, and that means socialism mixed with socialism. Fascists view the state as the embodiement of the people, and that the people is made up of many parts -bodies, corpi in latin and hence corporatism- which should work together to strengthen the state and people.

 

The social programs of Nazi Germany were in place before Hitler.
Bismarck instituted Medical and Dental coverage that Churchill admired and thought should be instituted by the Brits.

Consider Germany's steel industry owned by the Krupp family. Supported under the Kaiser, supported under Hitler, still owned by the Krupp family. Corporationism = National Socialism.
Socialism for the corporations, rugged individualism for the people. Just like today via both parties.


Moi

 

I didn' t say we must kill them or put them in goulags. I think people vote for fascists coz' they don' t have good education. Education is the most important. I think school must change. We need learn history, politic, economy, geography just after primary school. People need understand why french revolution, why russian revolution... They make revolution coz the didn' t have food, they died coz' they were so cold, economy crushed... It' s very important to understand all the context.

 

This. Definitely this.

 

In America, I think your actual history books are based on media accounts, and the media accounts are largely managed by the major players, because of their importance as sources, influence etc... It is because of this that American history books (many of them, anyway) actually portray a reality which did not happen. I love the analysis of Ed Herman on stuff like this. If you read Politics of Genocide it's a real eye-opener.

 

In France, all our media are owned by large capitalist groups, at school, there are many pro-American and anti-Russian propaganda. I think that there is much evil in the USA that in continental Europe.
But there is also good. What 'm concerned, that is the growth of fascism.

 

He can' t do much. Coz' lobbies are powerful. Like in Europe.

 

The nazis did of course continue a german tradition that started in the late 19th century. I don't get your point. Because the nazis weren't the first that means they were against it? Nevermind that they kept and expanded the system?

French people are not in that situation now though. The educational system has been geared towards discouraging facsism since the end of ww2. What I think this about is the people not agreeing with the policies of the current parties, and using the democratic provess to change it. as it shoul be.

 

Maybe I reverse pointed ? ?
POINT: The benevolent social programs available to the Aryan German people were 19th Century German programs.
They were not the initiation of Hitler. That's all.


Moi

 

My point being that the corporatism practised by the fascists isn't welfare for the rich as you say, but aimed at benefitting the nation as a whole.

 

The Supreme Industrial Families of Italy and Germany held their family industries before, during and after fascism.
I am suggesting those such as the Krupp family did better at acquiring personal wealth under the fascist, corporate socialism
than they did without the fascist.

Benefiting the whole nation is more often a line than a practice. Like Obama.
As discussed, some National Benefits were instituted by Bismark, carried on by the Kaiser, etc. and maintained by Hitler.
We can disagree. It's cool.


Moi

 

Of course the krupps did fine when they were favoured by the government. But what I'm saying is that the people didn't starve in the streets as if it was some capitalistic dictatorship intent on screwing the poor for the benefits of the rich. Well, unless you were a jew of course..

 

That was not the buildings the planes crashed into and which everyone watched on TV. It was another building and it was admitted later.

It seems to me there are two types of people in this world, those who examine things and learn from them, something which has always been part of Western culture, and the other paranoid ones, who are too smart to be fooled and have to find out who did it.

 

My dear Guillaume, i must say i recognize the french accent as it is written. To be honest i'm quite happy to see another frenchman trying to think by himself in a international forum.
" Ami, entends-tu le vol noir du corbeau sur nos plaines? "

( " Le chant des partisans" ) Nice resistance song.

Anyway. let speak referendum right.
First of all the people CANT decide on when and what to vote for referendum (like in Switzerland ) and when they actually have the right to vote.

When they do vote like in 2005

It was still applied by Sarkozy as part of the Lisbone treaty, with the exact same content !

Do you know how much laws are applied in France after being proposed to the EU parliament by unelected commissaries in Bruxelles ?
( use google translate )
http://www.euractiv.fr/institutions...nent-elles-vraiment-bruxelles_51780-1690.html

That does bother me, that unelected bureaucrats decide for a majority of laws apply in France.
That also bother me, that EU legislature is superior to national ones. We can't decide to buy mainly national products for public companies/administration anymore as it's would be a breach in free trade decided in Brussels.

I would vote for anyone who tell me and guarantee that we will do a referendum on main subject starting with sovereignty. Now that very strange that the National front is the only party who said that they would do a Euro referendum, as well as proposing a referendum initiative from citizens made by laws.
As well as proposing that anything that is decided through a referendum can't be canceled but with another referendum.

Some leftists there could say it's sound a bit facist from there, but that would look quite democratic in my taste. And maybe, the people from "Bretagne" wouldn't have to burn down stuff to get a tax removed.

 

Fascism has two components: the nationalism/xenophobia, with all that entails, which has made fascism notorious; centralized and authoritarian government. I would argue that the nationalism/xenophobia may have been largely removed (though anti-semitism is newly fashionable throughout Europe), but that the socialist and quasi-socialist regimes throughout Europe have perfected centralized and authoritarian government. What we see is "friendly fascism," fascism which seems nice so long as you submit to its rules and rulers. So my answer to the thread question is that Europe is already fascist, and is rushing to restore the prejudices and conflicts of the past. It's ironic that Germany may be least fascistic of all.

 

Tell us what are the forms of facism in Europe.
Also tell us what do you mean with Antisemitism in Europe ? What happen down there ?

 

Fascism's modern face is socialism, found in various forms throughout Europe. These governments preempt much of what a free people (as the people of the United States have been) would decide for itself. As I wrote, the only thing missing is the bitter strife between nationalities, religions, and races. But as the European Union pulls itself apart in slow motion, the national conflicts resurface. The problem is that the member states of the Union have different economies with conflicting needs; no unified economic policy suits all. The countries of the Union are less and less willing to make their prosperity secondary to other nations'.

My friend Moi sent me a PM asking for proof, so here are a few relevant links.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7655086.stm
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brunowaterfield/5434967/Can_the_EU_take_the_economic_strain/
http://www.eu-27watch.org/?q=node/582
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/24/europe-news-eu
http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/spectre-separatism-haunts-europe-7979
http://marlinspikenestor8435.wordpress.com/2011/04/05/the-strains-and-pains-of-the-eu-and-its-identity-crisis/

Anti-semitism in Europe?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/09/world/europe/jews-in-europe-report-a-surge-in-anti-semitism.html
http://www.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/i65/Veranstaltungen/2013/11/ConferenceProgram_Antisemitism_in_Europe.pdf
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/31/disturbing-persistence-antisemitism-europe
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3556/anti-semitism-europe
http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/surge-of-anti-semitism-sets-off-alarms/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chief-rabbi-lord-sacks/europe-new-anti-semitism_b_1663157.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/11/16/anti-semitism_in_europe_is_getting_worse_120687.html

 

Most European countries have several parties and governments can not afford to deny services for the civilians , ruling parties removing medical care and services can and will face political elimination .
I think fellow Americans of the forum should study the old continent more if they want to understand it .

Immigration was not a problem before the crisis .

 

It's of course aplified during (*)(*)(*)(*)ty times.