ask your "tough" questions regarding atheism here

I could pick a random poster and, neither of us really knowing anything about them, I could say "that person does not have an eleventh toe, and thats an objective fact." I'd very probably be right. But unless we were able to check, I'd be calling something a fact when it's really only a firm opinion based on strong probability.

 

Yeppir.. it proves that those words do exist. Just like the word 'god' exists. I suppose you are now going to say that you have no images in your mind of zombies, vampires, santa, and easter bunnies?

I read well enough.

 

I dont understand what you're trying to say here, and what makes you think it's relevant, because it sure gives the impression that it's not.

Right, but that wasn't talking about whether we KNOW god exists. All it said was that it is possible to be of the opinion that he does not. Surely you aren't going to argue that point?

That would be more precise, to be sure. But there's nothing wrong with stating an opinion or belief without prefacing it with "I believe..." For example, I could say that country music is crap - would you take that as meaning that country music is literally and objectively composed of feces?

Well, we shall just have to claim to having different experiences then, and you are as free to doubt the veracity of my claim as I doubt yours.

I wouldn't say it's empty. Doesn't tell you all that much, not always useful, not as precise, sure. But it DOES tell us something about a person - they believe a god exists.

Oh, I have tried to find an answer. Just not today. The reason being, I have come to the conclusion that the answer will not be found so easily that a discussion on a forum would bring it out.

Me neither, but if I wanted to do something important I wouldnt be debating on a politics forum.

What? I fear you did not really understand what I posted. I do not claim to know why the universe exists. Do you claim to know why God exists? That's the parallel I'm drawing.

 

In the department of the obvious, yes. But then, some people!

 

... ?

I asked something what had absolutelly nothing to do with god. You spoke about god - not I. I had a question because I was interested to find out what an atheist is thinking about this problem. The question is a real question and not a joke.

What for heavens sake has this question to do with an opinion? All people have always an opinion about everything. If you aks someone "Is it more nice than wide?" then he will tell you something about his opinions in case of this "problem".

Yestermorrow maybe?

What a pitty

God created existance. His own existance too? I don't know. Since a very long time we are saying "god created everything out of nothing". Because in the nothing is no existance then he was maybe not the nothing. But if he was not the nothing then the nothing was not nothing - perhaps we can say it was "godthing"? No idea. Really not.

We are the universe. Are we god? No! So what means to draw "parallel" concrete?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A3Y8y_hTQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIbRFdtdfBs

 

This forum has a habit of joining posts together, so I can understand why you made this mistake. This part of our conversation was actually in response to your claim about dogma, not in response to your question.

You're the one who split up my sentences, imposing an importance on this 'opinion' part that I never intended. If you now wish to walk away from that inconsequential part, I'm of course fine with that, but don't try to pretend that it's me who is focusing on irrelevancies.

Good reply! Now, your answer to 'what created god' is the same as my answer to 'what created the universe.' I just wished to point out that at some point, we both have to acknowledge that we don't know where everything came from. There are many religious people who are unwilling to admit that, so I must respect your honesty there.

Once again I have no clue what you mean.

 

there has never been evidence of anything supernatural, ever. we must therefore accept (and in my case, embrace) the LIKELIHOOD that no supernatural things exist. if they did, we'd surely have evidence by now

so that's the lack of evidence referred to. of course I'm talking of tangible, observable, verifyable evidence, here. not "I can feel god in my heart" evidence.

 

I have no position on souls. they are, as far as I can tell, a concept invented for the purpose of assigning 'specialness' to humans. a way of separating us from animals.

 

Boring.

I did not ask you anything. You answered [not] on my question to someone else on no reason to do so.

Sorry

You understood really nothing what I said. God is not created - he's creator. We are creation, we are the universe - and we are not god. For sure I am not god - except I would know nothing about - and god is an allknowing entity. So it's really clear: I'm not god. And please: Nothing what I asked had to do with god. I liked to know only something.

I don't have anything to do with anything what you think and I don't agree in anything what you say nor do I disagree in anything what you say. I'm just simple noticing what you say. And I'm always learning here - under all circumstances - because I'm not a native english speaker.

I don't believe that everything came from nothing - I know that everything came from nothing. That's a consequence of the expansion of the universe. What I believe in this context and what generations of Christians believed too is: god created everything out of nothing. The modern science is not in conflict with our traditional belief.

Good grieve. Why do you have always to attack someone? Crazy.

I guess you are right to say so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_LxYmL89Tw

 

Can you "feel" love in your heart or in your mind? Is "love" tangible? How about 'hate' or 'remorse' or 'jealousy'? So it would seem, that in your way of thinking, there is no evidence of such things because they are not tangible.

 

I am not here to entertain you. If you lack the concentration to debate a topic perhaps you shouldn't ask questions on it.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Irrelevant. You don't know what created god. I don't know what created the universe. It's that simple. Stop trying to deflect attention from it.

No, you do not "know" that everything came from nothing. You may think you know, but you only believe.

My main point was "I respect your honesty" and you think it's an attack? You have no right to call anyone else crazy.

However, if you would rather post glib insults than actually attempt to explain things when I make it clear that I dont understand you, then you make it clear that you do not deserve respect after all.

 

do atheists deny to obey the commandments of God or deny the existence of God?

 

"deny to obey"? What does that even mean?

An atheist does not "deny the existence of god". I similarly do not deny the existence of nessie, or flying saucers. I just dont think any are real, or much worth further consideration.

An atheist simply does not believe in your "god", much as you might not believe there are still dinosaurs living in the Congo.

I dont act according to "laws" written by people supposedly from this "god" any more than I do for any other set of rules supposedly form any other god.

Its a bit like the saying, "we all all althiests, Xtians just disbelieve one less god than I do."

 

neither.

 

Are you suggesting then that you do obey the commandments of God?

 

no. I'm saying commandments are irrelevant ergo no denial or otherwise.

 

Then you believe that it is correct in the eyes of society, to rob, rape, plunder, murder, etc.?

 

Thank you!

Double quoting is just two steps from the question though...

 

So who are you arguing with? I see evidence of the possible(and impossible) everywhere. Though I can't prove it to you anymore than you can prove that the impossible doesn't exist everywhere...

“He possessed the logic of all good intentions and a knowledge of all the tricks of his trade, and yet he never succeeded at anything, because he believed too much in the impossible. Surprising? Why so? He was forever in the act of conceiving it!”

 

God is the uncreated creator. That's a completly different thing from anything what you could call universe. "Before" the universe was "here" nothing was never nowhere.

Speak with a serios phycicist about what he really knows about the situation "before" the universe started to expand - and the only thing he really knows is: nothing was never nowhere. All other ideas in this context are still only speculations.

Good grieve - what a senseless war of words.

[video=youtube;0h-xUbhX7HI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-xUbhX7HI[/video]

Wir sagen euch an den lieben Advent

Wir sagen euch an den lieben Advent
Sehet, die erste Kerze brennt!
Wir sagen euch an eine heilige Zeit.
Machet dem Herrn den Weg bereit!
Freut euch, ihr Christen! Freuet euch sehr.
Schon ist nahe der Herr.

Wir sagen euch an den lieben Advent.
Sehet, die zweite Kerze brennt.
So nehmet euch eins um das andere an,
wie auch der Herr an uns getan!
Freut euch, ihr Christen! Freuet euch sehr.
Schon ist nahe der Herr.

Wir sagen euch an den lieben Advent.
Sehet, die dritte Kerze brennt.
Nun tragt eurer Güte hellen Schein
weit in die dunkle Welt hinein.
Freut euch, ihr Christen! Freuet euch sehr.
Schon ist nahe der Herr.

Wir sagen euch an den lieben Advent.
Sehet, die vierte Kerze brennt.
Gott selber wird kommen, er zögert nicht.
Auf, auf, ihr Herzen, werdet licht.
Freut euch, ihr Christen! Freuet euch sehr.
Schon ist nahe der Herr.

Text: Maria Ferschl

 

=Cop out. Any good theologian is also a good philosopher else the question is moot.

 

What had your "There is no god" what I answered with the traditional words of the Muslims "except god" to do with what kind of question? ... Whatever ... By the way: We Christians do not have only a double bind to god - we have even a triple bind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPfdD3pBUig

 

I'm not a theologian. I'm just simple a Christian. Your "Cop out" and "moot" statement are ignoring that the level of this words were not on a level I could call "philosophy". If someone calls me an honorful exception under my friends then I'm asking myselve why he's attacking my friends - and not wether I'm honorful or not honorful. Traditional Germans in my area hate such forms of bootlicking very much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGstrljksN0

 

True, but few atheists will make that assertion. Most, myself included, simply don't accept any of the propositions they've ever heard regarding the existence of a god or gods. "A"theism does not mean "not god" but rather "not theist". Not accepting a proposition is not asserting its negation.

 

"God" and "a god" are completly different. And "existent" is everything what will be able to cause anything in any future. Something was for example existing a thousand years ago what made your existance now possible - but we would not be able to find this preexistance of you. And we don't know wether god is causing something directly - except he is telling us something about, what could also be an illusion - but we know: the belief in god is causing something. One of the words of Jesus was often "Your belief helped you" - as far as I know he never said "I helped you".

If I see it the right way then this is a form of agnosticism now. You are not able to say anything about the existance of god nor the not-existance of god - but your position is not the position of people you are calling "theists" - Jews, Christians, Muslims I guess - Hindus - maybe Buddhists and others too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mn1ibFdXDU

Jesus bleibet meine Freude,
Meines Herzens Trost und Saft,
Jesus wehret allem Leide,
Er ist meines Lebens Kraft,
Meiner Augen Lust und Sonne,
Meiner Seele Schatz und Wonne;
Darum lass ich Jesum nicht
Aus dem Herzen und Gesicht.