Australia suffers most extreme warming

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Bowerbird, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    I am handing you a golden opportunity to shoot me down in flames. If you are so sure I am wrong, it should not be hard to prove
     
  2. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    Why do I have this sneaking suspicion, that no matter what evidence was produced; it would always be disputed? :bored:

    Lets agree to disagree.
     
  3. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    I am sure there are plenty of people playing along at home would like to see me taken down a peg. Here is your chance to be the peoples champion
     
  4. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    16 pages in and still no one has shown any of this so called "most extreme warming".... sounds to me like someone has been listing to pope al gore too much..
     
  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    More wriggle than a worm. Some, most - if you are going to quote me then QUOTE me do not make allegations that are in fact ad homs. It does not matter if he does it once twice or a thousand times it is NOT science, it does not follow any known scientific method and it is not replica table. End of story.

    What you are not understanding is this is almost a deal breaker as far as science goes - to claim something is true based on photos of a tree that cannot be found again in itself will have the scientific community re-evaluating all prior research done by this person. This is what people outside academia do not realise when they talk of "group think" because academics are about capable of that as a drunk governmental committee. It is the academic equivalent of Monica Lewinsky - does not matter what else Clinton did good or bad he will be forever remembered for one affair






    I stand corrected, Morner does say sea levels are rising little, if at all today. Did you actually read what Morner says and backs up with observable data on this site?



    Fail BB. Neither of those articles even come close to disputing Morner with scientific facts. The first artical is about what a handfull of scientists THINK MIGHT HAPPEN so it is just opinion, pseudo science. The second site is not much better, no scientific facts or data just opinion again. Morner makes a claim then backs it up with facts and analysis of facts.



    Trying to discredit the site again instead of disputing claims? If I can show you bias and flat out incorrect statements on scepticalsicience will you stop trusting them and stop quoting articles from that site? Don't want to answer that question do you.[/QUOTE]
     
  6. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    It did quote you, in one post you said 'most' of his claims where based on a tree and then in the last most you 'some' of his claims. So what is it, most or some?

    Anyway, lets have a look at Morners actual publication titled 'Sea Level is Not Rising, click on the PDF file of the transcript and READ IT through to the end, it is not all that long. Please disregard Moncktons little introduction, it is irrelevent to Morners findings. You will discover there is no mention of a tree in the Maldives. You will also find that he most certainly does follow scientific method and as for being replicable, well replication doesn't really apply in this case because he has not done anything to be replicated. Everybody has access to the same data that he has used.
    Once again he gives proof of data being manipulated by alarmists. The tree thing is just a desparate attempt by alarmists to discredit Morner because they cannot refute him on a scientific level.

    http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/blog_watch/sea_level_is_not_rising.html
     
  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Oh! Dear! You really are doing the rounds of the denialist astroturf sites aren't you? And that in and of itself should tell you something.

    Link telling who is on SPPI - and note it includes craig Idso. Now when you tell me about how many people are making money from climate science and how that is causing them to publish papers supporting global warming I want you to think about people like Idso and Kinninmoth - both of whom are listed, along with their funding sources on Sourcewatch

    But I do not even have to go as far as Sourcewatch because Wiki already lists at least one of his sources of income

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_D._Idso

    So, your source is suspect let us analyse the article - I will not call it a research paper until I have read it

    And think yourself lucky I AM reading it because I am finding hard to justify why I am reading something entitled "Sea Level is not Rising" when there is every bloody evidence that it IS and has been for some time

    Insisting that sea level is not rising makes less sense than the thread about intelligent life on Mars. We have dozens of scientific institutes, universities, bureaus of meteorology, fishing tide guides, changing shore lines and markers and your answer is one bloke who is not even publishing in a magazine, who obviously has his head up his bum.

    If he is correct why is no-one else agreeing with him? Even his former association wants nothing to do with him
    http://www.skepticalscience.com/Nils-Axel-Morner-wrong-about-sea-level-rise.html

    But I will read the paper so you can LEARN how to do this yourself - let me just concentrate on the "main points" because mate- I have wasted enough of my time with fringe lunatics like this

    Point 1 - publication
    1)
    If is it not published in a known accepted scientific journal then it is not a science paper it is opinion and worth less than the roll of soft stuff you have hanging in the loo

    2) Scientific language - is VERY precise. Does NOT include sentences like this
    That is NOT scientific statement - it is opinion

    3) Hearsay is not admissible in court and it is certainly not admissible in a science paper

    4) Cherry picking - take a series where the change did not occur and display THAT without reference to the rest of the data

    Here is a classic - seven years of data picked from a series (and since there is no real link to the series one cannot tell if it has been manipulated too) but to just pull seven years from thousands well…………..

    But enough is enough - the Morner has been discredited by more people than you can poke a stick at

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/dec/02/spectator-sea-level-claims
     
  8. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    Trying to discredit the source again. How much are people making out of climate change research? $Billions!! there is every incentive to jump on the AGW research gravy train and every incentive to try and discredit in any way possible anyone who refutes the AGW agenda because they might jepardise those billions of government funds pouring in.

    So you just dismiss out of hand any suggestion that the foundations of the agw cult may be wrong. You just accept as gospel anything and everything your high preists of alarmism tell you and reject out of hand anything contrary. That is what you are saying here.

    Posted by dana. Who is dana? and what are dana's credentials?

    You mean like your reference to dana?

    An opinion piece in The Guardian, a leftist, pro alarmist paper, critising as its main point a magazine called the Spectator. Har har har har! You just violated all your numbered points above!
    Provide a link to a peer reviewed scientific paper that proves sea levels are rising due to agw.
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I am not discussing this further it has become an exercise in equivalent to teaching a pig to dance - life is too short for wacky fringe pseudo science and people who would rather believe that than the hundreds of other institutions world wide

    Occams razor - in this case we have the simple explanation that all of those scientific societies, fishery experts, oceanographers etc are wrong - or we have the notion that someone like Morner is right

    Which is the simpler explanation
     
  10. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    So you are unable to provide a peer reviewed scientific paper proving that sea levels are rising due to agw? I am quit happy to accept that Morner is wrong but you have to prove it. No opinion, no hearsay, cold hard scientific facts. Follow your own definition given before of what is acceptable. No dana's now...
     
  11. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    After reading BB's posts and realizing that today was the first day of summer I wouldve thought we would have some "extreme heat" but alas no, just an average day.
    Your religion of AGW was based on flawed computer modeling that inflated the numbers. Admit it and move on.
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Oh! For…………………

    Can't google???

    Why am I getting the feeling I am being trolled to a fare-thee-well. I have linked to more bloody research papers already it is not funny - go back and look \
    (I guess it proves - denialists never click on links)

    But in case you missed it try the CSIRO website
    http://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/sl_hist_last_15.html
    Wiki is ALWAYS referenced and with peer reviewed papers - you pick one of those
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

    And here is the ref for Google scholar search http://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&q=sea+level+rise&btnG=&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp=
    Knock yourself out
     
  13. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    You know, it appears that the AGW religion cannot produce any evidence of their claims. They simply have only the ability to post opinion as fact they talk of things that make good pictures but are really unable to produce anything. Here I have seen the hypocritical claims of one AGW theorist as to what is acceptable and not as reference and then produce the same as if it was gospel that everybody should know and accept.

    It is interesting that you would confront them with the sea levels as it is extremely interesting that many of the claims of oceans contribution to climate are clearly not understood as studies are continuing to ascertain the validity of claims due to the fact actual observations are considerably different to theories and hypothesis (let alone the modelling). For years these religious zealots have proclaimed this and that while discarding information that they either do not understand or cannot account to make a picture of doom and gloom. When confronted, they either run and hide or pretend to have discussed it so often that it is pointless. Occam’s razor does not account in this case as the simplest explanation is that nature is doing what it has done for millennia. Sure draw the picture as the AGW theory wants and it is something, but look to the entire picture over the entire period of evidence and suddenly the fact that man has so much influence over nature is rather convoluted. BUT HEY, let us not let reality interfere with a good story, especially if you can gouge the gullible of hard earned money to line the pockets.

    I note that the AGW theorist still is unable to produce that scientific paper to refute the claims yet want to pretend the answer lies in the references of the Author of a WIKI page. That should cure your insatiable need for evidence without actually producing anything of substance.

    I am afraid that this tactic is the normal of these religious zealots, as shown with IPCC, discredit as much as possible without evidence.
     
  14. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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  15. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    Looked out the back for this so called "extreme warming" still cant find it? Should we call pope Gore to ask him where it is?
     
  16. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently it is regional now so you might not see it.
     
  17. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's a game for people who are bored with life and an attempt to back up their political persuasion! While ever their beloved side of politics takes a particular stance they will follow relentlessly and blissfully ignorantly. As for where the denialists propaganda came from, it has to be said that big business has made light of the findings this takes the blind followers along for the ride knowing that they are wrapped around their political fingers.

    They know the truth deep down, but where would that leave them in terms of their political persuasion that they have passionately followed. It would be a bit embarrassing and deflating to think otherwise!
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    What gets me is that 10 minutes of reading the crap that Morner and Monckton are spreading and a primary school kid would spot the flaws and most people would want to distance themselves as far as possible from that idiocy

    It is like arguing that "Breatharianism" is a rational diet choice http://www.jasmuheen.com/living-on-light/breatharians/
     
  19. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yep, lure you into doing all the hard work providing massive amounts of sources and then look for reasons to discredit. They are happy to back up responses funded by the likes of Exxon because Exxon cares about people not mammon :roll: Exxon haven't got anything to lose.....much! I think the topic needs discussion not debating and ridicule, which isn't happening, because they want to lure you into a sh!t fight because it is all a game of political persuasions.

    Thanks for the interesting link to breatharianism, never heard of it before....lmao!
     
  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    What makes Breatharianism less of a laugh and more serious is that two followers of this started a "health farm" and one of their clients starved to death

    Yes there is nothing out there so ridiculous that someone won't believe it
     
  21. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    Ok, so I have looked at your references. The IPCC we can disregard straight off because of their enormous conflict of interest when it comes to ANY suggestion that they are not spreading pure gospel plus of course they are not a scientific body and they have been accused of 'tweeking' the data and making unfounded and exaggerated claims. Then if we get rid of all the newspaper and magazine articles, press releases and references that actually have nothing to do with the science of sea levels, we are left with a small handfull that may be actual scientific papers pertaining to sea levels. I will get back to you on what I find in those references.
     
  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I referenced the IPCC?? Can't remember doing so and usually do not because I know it will be rejected out of hand instead of read. But IF and only IF you had opened an IPCC report you will see the references there - this is the core of academic writing - everything is referenced. Those papers were picked to support the IPCC statements. Finding fault in one of those will not just win an argument but would get you mucho kudos from across the denialosphere
     
  23. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    Anyone can manipulate and falsify data and information. Especially professionals who make a living from manufacturing the data and information.

    Don't need to be a genius to understand that.
     
  24. montra

    montra New Member

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    God help us, the weather is changing on planet earth!!

    The next thing you know the continents will change position and islands will form!!

    It's the end of the world I tell ya!!
     
  25. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, you can bet anything you like they were picked to support their statements!
     

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