Is human free will possible with an all powerful God?

I don't think it is for this reason:

1. An all powerful God would be omniscient.

2. Being omniscient he would know what were going to say or do.

3. That means what we say or do is preordained.

4. Therefore we would have no free will.

 

No, it just means that time is not as one might think. "god" can look at it at any point.

 

That is as much as saying, to God reason doesn't apply; in which case the reply would be why then are we even talking about him?

 

Pretty much. Watch the apologeticists trip over that one.

 

Calvinist?

 

The bible implies in many many places that we do NOT have free will, so it would be good if Christians would stop saying that we do:

Acts 13:48
And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom.8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom.9:11-22
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.

Eph.1:4-5
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

Jeremiah 10:23
O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

2 Th.2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.

2 Tim.1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Jude 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation.

 

Jerimiah, "I knew you before you were in the womb."

 

So you agree He's sovereign?

 

Excellent, as always.
You are more of a role model to me than Jesus is.

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I agree that people with invisible friends ("god', etc.) are delusional.

 

What proof do you have that their delusional?

 

1. Talking donkeys are not real, Christians are delusional (unless of course they've gone through the Bible before giving it to their kids and highlighted all the insane parts and told their kids those parts are simply fairy tales.)

2. Talking snakes are not real, Christians are delusional (unless of course they condemn that story as a pack of lies.)

3. 900 year old people are not real, Christians are delusional (unless of course they have not brought forward the insane parts of those texts - such as if they care about getting the truth to their children, for example.)

4. Unicorns are real, but Christians are so delusional that they TRUST people who believed Unicorns are real with their overall belief system. Crazy.

 

Differentiate for us between people in mental institutions who have an invisible friend, or small children with an invisible friend, and adult "sane" Christians/Muslims who also have an invisible friend. How is their invisible friend different (please don't tell me "because OTHER people also have that same invisible friend.") All three can prove their invisible friend to the same degree.

 

So you don't have proof that people that claim to have "invisible friends" are delusional?

 

I don't hold the degree to make that distinction but I would say probably 90%

 

I do have common sense, they clearly don't.

Do YOU have an invisible friend, elijah?

Do you have proof that I'm not 49 feet tall? What, no proof, well then I guess you'll just have to have "faith" that I'm 49 feet tall.

I do know that either 2.1 billion Christians are delusional OR that 1.5 billion Muslims are delusional (could be BOTH of course!) because Islam says that Jesus was NOT resurrected and is not the son of god, even though Jesus is a prophet in Islam. They can't BOTH BE RIGHT.
Elijah, which ones are delusional, the Christians, or the Muslims, or both?

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You don't have proof there is no bigfoot, but you still don't believe in bigfoot, correct?

 

Many people with advanced degrees have invisible friends, so that doesn't hold much water, I'm afraid.

You seem to be one of the more rational posters on this forum, so hopefully I'm giving your replies the attention that they deserve.

 

It is my understanding that Calvinists like Muslims are pre-determinists. Wouldn't that inevitably make the idea of sin meaningless?

 

The bottom line is that religions simply make no sense when they are put under the microscope of reason.
"Jesus is love, and if I believe in him I get into heaven" sounds good and all, but once it's thoroughly examined, it's a con, a hoax, a ruse.

 

It's true but you don't have to place God into the equation to realize we do not have free will. All you need is science. It will never matter to theists though because without free will the whole game falls apart.

 

1) If you are referring to the God of the Bible I don't see where it describes God as being "omniscient".

2) Just to humor you let's say God is omniscient. So you think God is micro manager? Not necessarily. From what I have read the God of the bible created humans with free will so that some will choose the love Him while others will reject Him. Seems like a reasonable thing to me. Why bother creating puppets if the goal is to end up with humans who love you by choice?

3) Not if humans are created with a free will on purpose.

4) See #3.

This is an old argument. Intelligent atheists have moved on from it because it is so easily defeated as I have demonstrated. LOL!

 

I didn't refer to a God of the Bible. But if he is all powerful I think my point holds.

 

...see #2 of my post. Your point is pointless.

 

Number 3 is a total assumption. Just because God may be "omnipotent" doesn't' mean that everything we say and do is "preordained". So your logic fails.

 

This is yet another argument I never understood from those who spend their lives arguing against the existence of God...

Just because God knows the choices people will make, does not mean he directs them.

So in human terms, yes we have free will. I can choose to hit "post" on this, or not. God just knows I will.

God stepped in in some circumstances and people made choices they never would have made (i.e. Pharaoh, etc. etc.), which is what some of the "help me not believe in God" types will use as an argument against it.

 

I'd have said the same thing, except I see so many in this forum constantly harping on this.

Not saying they are all intelligent, but I'm sure some of them probably are... no ?


I guess I should chill... or they'll throw the "shellfish" argument at me

Another one the more intelligent atheists have stopped using.