Marines delay 3-pullups requirement for women

I think because you're Air Force, you just don't see a lot of jobs that require good old fashioned back breaking labor. The other services, particularly the Army and Marines, have plenty of MOS's that require a great deal of physicality, not just computer keyboard skills. That being said, I've no doubt that your view, that the Marines are failing their recruits, will prevail, resulting in a change in the "outdated" standards to something that's more girl appropriate.

 

The physical requirements should be the same for all regardless of gender and they should be harsh requirements.

 

All Marines are a potential rifleman. Just like in the USAF everyone is a potential member of a load crew and computer skills can't defend an air base.

 

Combat doesn’t distinguish if you’re a man or a woman. IMO it is very simple, if you can’t pass the physical or lack the physical ability to be in the military you don’t belong until you can do the physical aspects of the job. A bullet fired from an AK is going to hit you the same if you’re a man or a women. It doesn’t matter. This type of stuff, either in the military or society as a whole, is what gets people killed. In fire departments, women and some men who can’t pass the physical…. file a lawsuit so you can. It is the same thing here. Combat zones can change very quickly; does Somalia ring a bell?

 

No arguments here, read my previous statement. Physical requirements should be the same regardless of gender and should be rigorous.

 

What do pull-ups have to do with the operation of a rifle?

There is nothing in the airman's creed about being a "rifleman" or on a "load crew".

The idea behind the Marine credo that everyone is a rifleman first, is that every MOS is familiar enough with a rifle that they could get in the fight if necessary.

What does the ability to do 3 pull-ups have to do with the operation of a rifle that weighs less than 9 lbs. fully loaded?

I'm not at all saying the Marines should lower their standards....if they want every recruit , male or female, to be able to do a minimum of 3 pull-ups, then this is what they should do. However...with proper conditioning and practice, there's no reason why a female cannot build up to this. The drill instructors have a recruits attention for a full 12 weeks. The fact that after 12 weeks something on the order of 50% of female recruits still can't do 3 pull-ups tells me the Marines aren't helping the recruit pass and working on their areas of weakness, or they are recruiting people who fail the initial strength requirements to even be a recruit in the first place.

The drill instructors need something to work with...a raw recruit should begin BMT in relatively good shape., if they aren't, why are the Marines taking them in the first place?

What's somewhat laughable, to me at least is the hyperbole that the very freedom of Democracy hinges upon the ability to do 3 pull-ups.

If those are the standards for the Marines they shouldn't be lowered, but to infer anything beyond that is purely an argument from emotion.

 

Don't sweat it. Women and all such others that are not qualified to be soldiers or marines, are just tokens. The law of political correctness has dictated that the armed forces must have a token attachment -- just dutifully accomodate, humor ... and try to ignore them!

Nevertheless, it's hard to ignore the female tokens because any hint of not being politically incorrect instantly spells an end to their military careers. Consequently, commanders are scared to death of females and allow them to do whatever they want to do including seeking revenge on men by bossing them around.

Oh well, the Army and the Marines still have a few good men to get the job done.

(Is it true that all females in the military are officers?)

 

If you can't pull yourself out of a pit when someone throws a grenade in it, you die. Marines are not allowed to die.

Have you never watched your aircraft getting loaded?

It's not an idea, it's a historical fact. Every major campaign undertaken by the US Marines has at one point or another required typical non-combatants to become rifleman. To ignore those facts is to simply ignore reality.

It proves you can pull three times your own weight.

I don't disagree. If the vast majority can't do the pullups then the Marines needs to adapt their training to ensure that they can complete those three pull ups.

What even more laughable is that you would think that same democracy could depend upon how well someone can use a keyboard.

IF anything, the standards should be raised. Just like in the USAF you should have to run more than a mile and a half in less than 14 minutes only once per year.

 

Lots of potential female Marine recruits have played high school sports of some sort.

Tell you what...give me a gal, who played 4 years of soccer in high school...someone used to a conditioning program and within 12 weeks I'll have them doing 3 pull-ups.

I struggled with pull-ups and rope climbing, that sort of thing I'm aware of the conditioning programs which strengthen the muscles utilized for those upper-body tests of strength.

If the Marines are taking civilians with no prior conditioning at all...just some guy off the couch from video games...yes even after 12 weeks, they are not going to be in peak condition, and many do indeed fail BMT and are either separated or recycled through again.

My question is, are the Marines initial recruiting methods selective enough to even be a raw recruit and are they working with a recruit to strengthen what may be a weak area.

The services need all sorts of jobs...linguists for example...if this femaile is otherwise intelligent enough and skilled enough to learn a language, and the only thing holding this person back is adequate conditioning to perform 3 pull-ups, I've never said, get rid of the standard, because I'm in agreement, 3 pull-ups is by no means a stellar feat of athleticism...however with practice and conditioning anyone in reasonably good shape can build-up to 3 pull-ups.

Anyone.

Male or female.

 

To those who think women shouldn’t have different requirements than men I ask this question: Why is it ok for older men to have lower requirements than younger men? Does the enemy care how old you are?

Personally, I think fitness requirements should be based on the particular MOS and not on age or sex. A military nurse or physician, regardless of sex, shouldn’t be held to the same physical requirements as say a combat medic.

 

They have plenty to do with the pysical strength to single-handedly pack an AMMUNITION CASE to the firing line, as opposed to having to take TWO RIFLES off of the line, because women are not capable of carrying the heavy cases solo.

Or to rapidly load artillery rounds, etc.

It never occurred to you that PHYSICAL STRENGTH is a MILITARY NECESSITY?

AS I said, the Left views the US MIlitary as thoughnit is an INTRAMURAL COLLEGIATE SPORT; it doesn't occur to them that WEAKENING our forces, by allowing LOWER physical standards, places LIVES AT RISK.

Their minds do not track that far.

To put it bluntly; leftists play CHECKERS...not CHESS.

 

A woman could do several pull ups if she worked out. I used to be able to do more then twenty. If the marines are that much of an ambition---it is the women who should put out the work to reach that standard. Dumbing down standards so our recruits don't have to meet them...is stupid and upside down.

 

First of all. I served 10 years as active duty USAF, and 9 years in the USAF Reserves.



Please post your service record and perhaps a photo of you in uniform...we can all judge the "Ramboesque" physique you so aptly describe as essential to military service. Loading those "ammo cans' in the heat of battle I'm sure.

There is military myth and there is military reality.
All service members are trained to respond to threats, yet 91% of military jobs do not involve direct combat operations. Non-combat jobs in the services include roles in journalism, business administration, food service and human resources.

I am proud to say that as a former USAF Reservist, we maintained the highest percentage of selective reserve women in the reserve component of the Armed Forces at roughly 25%. In this era of an all-volunteer military, even a recruit who is unable to meet the basic minimum standards of physical fitness has at least been willing to serve their country. Something I seriously doubt many of you arguing in this thread have ever done or would ever be willing to do. Take the OP author for example...one Mr. "Wolverine". Now while I personally have nothing against him or his 1st Amendment right to freely express an opinion...I ask are you a former or current Marine yourself? Have you ever served in any capacity in the Armed Forces? Yes you maintain a great arsenal of firearms..but I ask a simple question...have you ever served in the military, at any time and in any capacity? If you answer in the negative, I then ask who are you to decide who is...and who is not qualified to be a Marine?

I've never been a Marine...make no claims to the contrary; nor am I questioning the Marine Corps' minimum standards of physical fitness for every single Marine, male or female, regardless of their occupation...requiring at least 3 pull-ups in order to graduate from boot camp. My statements are more in the area of...ok, let's work these recruits, male or female and condition them to pass these minimum standards...rather than simply dismiss their willingness to step up and serve their country in an all-volunteer capacity. Any who aspire to become Marines must first pass the Initial Strength Test prior to shipping to recruit training. An assessment can be made at this time whether a recruit, male or femalem has the necessary physical fitness level prior to even attending boot camp. It they are deemed as physically unfit by the minimum standards as maintained by the Marine Corps, I see no reason to lower the standards.

I've never said otherwise.

 

YOu look very "cute in your uniform"..if that is your picture , at all.

Blah, blah,blah. You questioned the importance of PHYSICAL STRENGTH in a COMBAT SITUATION, "Airman".

Please cite which point I made about resupplying a firing line with ONE vs TWO people pulled off of it, requires me to share my personal history with the internet?

Cannot refute a SINGLE POINT I MADE, so it's time for the Leftdesperate "appeal to authority" nonsense.

My service, (or lack thereof) is irrelevant to the point at hand, nor is it "fodder" for a political forum. However, here's a pic of me taking some of my buds fishing:




I'm sure you were the "greatest airman" ever, per your Internet Testimonial.

Please cite what part of your Vast Military Expertise CHANGES a SINGLE FACT I CITED?


If ONE FEMALE MARINE given a "pass" on PT, is physically incapable of resupplying the firing line (they don't have those in the "in the rear with the gear" part of the Air Force- it's where the enemy is right in front of you, shooting at you, FYI ), than TWO RIFLES must leave the LINE.

Got math? That is not an irrelevant outcome.



De Opresso Liber

 

Call someone a "lefty" who wants to feminize the military...of course.
The modus operandi of the armchair warrior...the keyboard commando...loading those "ammo cans" in the thick of battle.

Did you not state this?

Rhetoric, I thought so. You were the one questioning my ability to ascertain what is and what is not necessitated to serve in the military...
yes I'm just some "lefty" who wants "Hello Kitty" backpacks and little chocolates on the pillows of every Marine at bootcamp.

I merely responded to that ...

Have a nice life...bub.

 

Bullcrap. You questioned the need for physical strength in a combat situaiton. There is a lot more to a firefight than "operating a rifle", speaking of "armchair warrriors", which is OBVIOUS to anyone who has been in one.

We're sure you got in some real "chit" in the "rear, with the gear", Captain America.

Every healthy soldier must be equally capable of performing at the SAME LEVEL as the soldier next to him.

SOP.

 

The difference between you and I, is that I would never denigrate anyone's service.
The fact you are, speaks more of your level of character than my own. All I did was state the respective branch I served in, the time in service ...and a photo.
Never stated what I did, or demanded to be recognized as some sort of G.I. Joe ideal.

Feel free to describe your qualifications to judge my own. You can do so anonymously...and I would be more than willing to thank you for your service. You might have slung hash at an Army chow hall...but to me...you served your country. Something less than 1% of Americans are willing to do. Should a female want to serve her country, I applaud her for that...I'm not going to immediately dismiss her on the grounds of her gender. If she is unable to meet and maintain a basic level of physical fitness as per the standards of the respective branch, these standards should not be lowered to meet her expectations, she will need to meet the expectations. I don't believe I've ever stated otherwise. What I'm doing is separating military myth from military reality. Most jobs don't require combat levels of physical fitness over and above that of the minimum levels of fitness required by each and every person who serves in their respective branch.

Again though...I don't denigrate another's service or willingness to serve.

 

Better reread your posts, Captain America. You did just that.

The "difference between you and I" is I don't try to hide from what I posted,as you are doing.

Your claims are fullacrap. Period. Reducing the PHYSICAL REQUIREMENT for ANY HEALTHY MARINE is an INSULT to the Corps...ask a Marine.

No, I am not claming to be a Marine, but I know that much about them, from my contact/experience with them.

None bolder; none braver.



It is also massively flawed military tactical planning, for obvious reasons.

Keep trying to dance away from what you posted...it's funny to watch.

 

I'm middle aged, 200 lbs and I can do 20+ pullups and recruits half my age and weighing at least 40 lbs less can't do 3 or only 3?!

Fail America. Fail.

 

That is correct.

 

What did I post...precisely...that stated emphatically.

The Marines must lower their physical standards specifically to allow women who might not otherwise meet the minimum requirements?

I'm calling out the keyboard commandos who bring out these scenarios...of "rockets red glare"..."bombs bursting in air"...no female belongs in the military. It's a man's job.

That's military myth.

I'm in complete agreement, that even if your job in the Marines is to shuffle paper at a desk and the most strenuous part of the day is opening a file cabinet still needs to maintain a basic level of physical fitness, military decorum and professionalism. They must be warriors at heart...

I don't believe any of my posts have flatly stated otherwise. If so, please feel free to point them out. I'll be happy to address them point by point...but if we're going to derail the thread into name callinig...then why waste our time or the readers.

Good evening....

I'm more than willing to address any statement I've made prior to this which flatly states, the Marine Corps must lower their standards to allow females to serve. I will fully admit to calling into question the necessity for each and every service member to maintain a level of physical fitness equivalent to a Navy Seal...this is myth. Most jobs and scenarios don't require it.

 

Every job in the US Marines is a "combat position".

 

Then why, even among all males, do the fitness test requirements change among age groups?

 

They have to meet and ARTIFICIALLY IMPOSED QUOTA to meet the "PC requirements" of the current administration, THUS leading us to the LOWERED PHYSICAL STANDARDS.


It seems that there are NOT ENOUGH WOMEN signing up for the Marines, who can ACTUALLY MEET THER EXISTING STANDARDS:



The Marine Corps announced quietly that it is delaying its pullup requirement for women, because most recruits would be unable to pass the test.

Starting Jan. 1, every woman in the Marines Corps was to be required to do three pullups, but that measure has been put off until some time next year, Lance Cpl. Ally Beiswanger told NPR.

More than half of female recruits tested at the end of boot camp couldn’t do three pullups. The Marines said they delayed the requirement to avoid losing recruits and current female Marines.


Women will be allowed to enter ground combat in 2016.


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ent-women/#.UsBD1uSEM3o.twitter#ixzz2p1hiigsk


They're not worried about "Marine secretaries".


Got it, yet?

 

Maybe in theory, but in practice it just isn't true.