Part II What's holding Black America back

you got any proof the guy was a conservative?

 

Common sense.

He was a southern democrat, and a hardcore racist. Those people have always been conservative. They just switched parties.

Today, they are Republicans.

 

and what made southern democrats conservative?
just saying theyre conservative doesnt make it so. try again

 

Hey, if you want to live in denial, go right ahead.

What decent Republicans should be doing is trying to get rid of the far right social conservative parasites that have hijacked their party since the days of Nixon and Reagan's southern strategy.

 

well you cant back up what you've said about libturds pulling the race card and about mlk's shooter so why should anyone listen to anything else you have to say?

 

You mean "racism!" accusations every time someone criticized Barack Obama from 2008 onward?

"I respectfully disagree with the President regarding his decision to --"

"Yes, Senator (so and so)" says Chris Matthews of MSNBC (or ANY generic leftwing journalist or pundit) "And just how long have you been a racist?"

That sort of gratuitous playing of the Race Card all the time by leftwingers? Gosh, I can't imagine WHY the general public has become just a trifle -- er -- leery of automatically accepting leftwing shrieks of "Racism!" and "Racist!" every time the subject of race in this nation is up for debate. It is a total mystery. Yes, yes indeed.

 

We are effectively talking about psychology. It is vastly complicated with thousands of variables.
You can take the wealthiest, most educated white family with multiple children and find different level of educational success on the ACT, SAT, or any other yard stick.
Do you agree?

I feel like you are trying to fit this problem of black underperformance in to a nice little box. "spend more money, get results".

Or maybe the didn't get enough oxygen during birth, or maybe they have a genetic deficiency, or maybe they were abused by a teacher, or maybe...

YES the argument is always going to shift because this isn't a black and white argument of just a few variables.

Do you dispute that the middle class black kids with educated parents perform BETTER than black kids who don't have those variables.

Its only torture if your insistent on trying to put a human being in a box. (Metaphor)

Twins can have different educational outcomes.

I feel like you are failing to recognize this is not a hard science. You can't just say education + income = X ACT score. There are ALWAYS more and more variables.
Again, do you dispute that a lot of white kids from great homes under perform.

Why do you keep repeating that?
Just because someone marks Yes on a survey form doesn't mean they practice it.
Drugs, Sex, Eating right.... we all know the 'right' answer. It doesn't mean we follow it.
For whatever reason, clearly those black parents and not enforcing that belief.

I have known lots of white parents with under performing students who know the value of education. That doesn't suddenly make them good disciplinarians who impose that belief on their kids.

Correct. But First generation parents don't have the history to build on. You said you were the first in your family to go to college. That instantly put you at a disadvantage. Did your parents help you fill out FAFSA forms? There is a lot of knowledge that goes into knowing how to 'do college' and the more generations you have that have gone through the process the more collective knowledge you have.
Its no different than farming.
7th Generation farming families probably yield more grain per acre than 2nd generation families.
(cool experiment)

I 100% agree. But I would take it further. In my family it wasn't just giving a damn, it was a full blown expectation. "you will do well in school". Failure to do well in school will make life miserable.

Here is a line that millions of parents fall for including white parents:
"I don't have any homework, teachers have us do our stuff in the computer lab"

1) I would call it poverty culture because its not unique to hip hop. Distrust of authority and the belief you have to 'hustle' are well established norms for which I gave you many examples. (Hill Billies, Gypsies, etc)

Because they are on mission impossible. The dysfunction in poverty stricken communities is mind blowing.
How do you educate a child whose parents force them to sell drugs or babysit their siblings? Answer: You don't.

Any increase in educational outcomes should be applauded.

It came from one of your own links. Plus its obvious if you know anything about NYC private schools. (Hint the tuition is REALLY high)

Um, it was so obvious I was joking.

The average life expectancy has gone up... which means people live longer.... which means old people use up more resources.... which means the 1980's fix on retirement age has already been surpassed by life expectancy.

Again, the solution is easy and I already gave it to you.
My only confusion is how you don't correlate life expectancy with rising entitlement costs.

Go on record. Make a prediction about when the doom is coming.
I have been asking that question of libertarians, fiat currency haters, conservatives, monetarists, anarcho capitalists, and every other doomsayers for a long time and so far they have a horrific track record.

The best economic soothsayer in the USA just happens to be Janet Yellen. She puts her predictions on paper and has the most accurate predictions of anybody so far.

I agree. Humans are a reflection of their environment. All my friends did drugs and had sex, therefore I did (past test) drugs and had sex. Even though I 100% knew the value of abstaining from both of those.

I have no doubt you have bad habits that you know are bad.

Hence, I don't care about your last quote. The parents for reasons not identified do not enforce educational excellence.

 

Ah, so the so called race card was played every time someone disagreed with Obama, eh?

It seems to me that the so called race card is accurately played every time a right winger spouts off racist drivel. They just don't like to hear it.

 

prove it

 

I think the best result I can get is to bracket nature/nuture, I have never believed that it is possible to empirically predict or model this stuff. Nothing I have read so far indicates the education gap will close in the next 30 years in spite of unprecedented effort to help these people. Nothing indicates in the next 30 years black people anywhere will suddenly start to be productive people within a modern economy.

At some point one has to admit that the explanations are getting just too desperate. Acceptance of a permanent gap will never be politically possible, black people demand equal economic outcomes in spite of clearly unequal performance. Obama and holder are trying force the issue right now.

No. I think income is a good proxy for parental IQ/education for all people, including whites. The problem is the distribution between whites and blacks is clearly offset by a constant. When discussing populations we are always talking about a Gaussian-like distribution, and there is a distinct shift in the curve. What I would like to see is a historical plot of this over time, plotted as a distribution of the whole population. Notice the gap is almost constant across all incomes, so it does no good to compare income levels of blacks for purposes of the gap. There are just too many blacks at the lower incomes.

which is why you always compare populations, not individuals

No it doesn't, but it can't be said they are unaware of the consequences of their choices.

My parents didn't do anything other than feed and house their 6 kids and tell us that if we wanted to be successful then we must do well at school. Every idiot I went to high school with knew that good grades were a good thing, it's not as if there is some mystery. Never took out loans since that wasn't our values. I worked very hard and lived at home my first 2 years of college so I could afford it. Is that possible today? I bet it is. Kids think they have to go to Yale right away, you don't, and I think it is almost better if you don't.

All it takes is one look at the report card, just make it a results driven process, it's very simple.

Hill Billies don't demand equal economic outcomes, they know what they are.

Disagree, it's not enough for a competitive economy. Time to change strategy and stop pretending.

Private is not charter.

So nobody expected life expectancy to keep climbing? Nobody knew about Medicaid and medicare? I doubt it, it was just a short term solution.

Predicting when is a losers game. We have had 3 'fat tail' events in the last 14 years, demographics is trending towards 1 in 3 people on government dependence, we are underperforming a long historical growth and employment curve, yearly GDP growth is still less than the federal deficit 5 years into this cycle, and the government entitlement finances are horrible. It's a pretty sure bet that the next crisis will be pretty painful given that we don't have the organic productivity gains that would be able to finance the just this crisis. Janet speed bump Yellen has no idea how to unwind that balance sheet, no idea.

 

Way too many Conservatives today, love pretending that what you say above, isn't so.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly!! You nailed it!!

 

1) What % of black people do you think are unproductive? I find your last statement pretty shocking.
2) Every single link you provided showed the gap decreasing. Hence on what basis do you conclude its an eternal truth?

Can you be more specific.
I am not aware of any push by Obama for anything more than better schools in poverty stricken areas.
There isn't some "blacks get to make as much money as whites regardless of education level" bill or proposal.

Yes. And one of those constants is "amount of time they had access to school and jobs".
For white people its 200+ years, for Blacks its 43ish years.

Yes. I think you have the bad habit of taking that population though and extrapolating it to all black people.
(See "start to be productive" comment)

Correct everyone is aware of whats good and bad for you. Education, Sex, Drugs, eating.. we all know the right choice. We all make bad choices.

DING DING DING. See as a first generation college kid(you), apparently nobody understood that borrrowing $24K to make $1,000,000 is a good investment.
A family with a long history of college fully understand "of course you take out loans to finance college, its the greatest investment opportunity on earth".
(Average student debt versus Average increased income of a degree over 40 years)

Yea, I'm always seeing inner city kids protesting for high wages for no education. I think thats why Crips and Bloods do on the week days.

WTF are you talking about? Who is demanding better wages for no education?
Other than some mcdonalds workers asking for a higher minimum wage. (Which wouldn't even come close to a college educated wage)

America has always had poor people. No reason to think suddenly because 30% of 13% are underachieving is going to destroy the nation?

Of course they expected it to climb. They passed the only politically viable solution they could and it just happen to work for 30+ years.

Do you think our government passes politically difficult bills that won't have an impact for over 30 years?
Our government can snap their fingers and fix entitlement spending the second they feel the have the political cover to do so. In the meantime, ALL Americans black and white dont' want to make the sacrifice.
Turns out we like 'free' stuff.

Its a basic requirement of science.

Define 'government dependence'.
Because 50% of Americans already receive government support.
(Including 10% of rich people and 60% of middle class people)

If you throw in mortgage interest deductions, it only gets higher. (I LOVE my mortgage interest deduction!)

Yep. That was one whopper of a recession combined with a global financial crisis and a global recession.
Luckily that is a short term event, and history indicates in the long run it will even out and be ok.

But easily fixed once Americans actually want it fixed.
Fun experiment. Go to a tea party rally and advocate for slashing social security and medicare.

1) Who is better at economic predictions and has a better track record than her?
2) I know how to unwind the balance sheet and I only have a minor in economics. I think you are very confused about political pressure and incumbency.

 

Yep and they are able to get on with life because men like Jackson and Sharpton have fought for them to get the opportunity for them to get on with it. Not hide and then when the coast is clear come out and start running off at the mouth.

It is his fault that he will stand in front of a white audience and criticize certain black folk, but he is not man enough to take that message to the black folks he is actually talking about.

Your right that is what you call black men who won't speak out, he won't ruffle any feathers, who will bend, buckle and bow down. Good examples. See these cowards are the ones who are paraded out front to attack black, but when an injustice is done to someone black they will run and hide. So your right a Good example of a coward is a good name for them.

 

Remember, "these" are the same guys that hated MLK when he was alive, now they "pretend" that they respected him....

If MLK were still alive today, "they" would be grouping him with Sharpton and Jackson.

 

First I have calculated that black America takes more from taxpayers than they give, but you are asking a slightly different question. These stats are approximate, but not far off, for illustration purposes. 29% of all black men born near 1990 will spend some time in jail, fewer than half of young black males will graduate high school, less than half of the working age population is employed by the private sector, they are on disability at much higher rates than white people, at 13% of the population they take just as much welfare as all whites....What percent productive? I'm going to go with half the working age population. The adults in the private sector plus those in the government that provide essential services.

Holder has a radical new legal agenda, disparate 'anything' means racism. Disparate incomes, jail time, house loans, even school punishment....

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/l...t-school-discipline-changes-the-wrong-way.ece
Obama's big push this year is disparate incomes, that combined with Holder's agenda is one of the main reasons I despise the left's race politics. They demand equal outcomes without equal inputs.

I was making a comment about the distribution, which is all blacks by definition. All arguments are statistical in nature.

My father was in the first generation following WWII, he didn't get the GI Bill. Many people in my generation took out loans. What I understood was that taking out $0 was an even better investment than taking out $24K. It was very possible back then.

Not the kids, but the adults sure are, and the political class is feverish about it.

Obama, Holder, and black leaders. Income disparity is the push. It goes like this- they failed at closing the achievement gap since it was too hard. So now they are going to take the easier route, try and demand equal outcomes no matter what they productivity disparity is.

True, but America has not always had a Black-Hispanic majority, exploding entitlements and really demanding foreign competition. Hispanics could pick up the ball and run with it, but they are showing no evidence that will happen. Analysis of them is extremely hard since data on illegals is hard to get.

Yup, I wonder when the moment of truth will be and what will cause it.

Economics is not a hard science, prediction is impossible. What is clear is that the fed now likes bubbles, they view them as ways to get the economy moving.

and we are running entitlement deficits now, dependence is anyone on the dole for more than they put in. Sadly for people in my demographic, I was maxed on payroll taxes for over a decade, I will never get back what I put into SSI nor will most. Medicare? I guess if I on purpose get an expensive disease. The baby boomers are starting to retire, look out.

keeping more of what you earn is not dependent.

What I am trying to explain is that we do not have any historical guidance. Our monetary experiment has never been done, the demographics is different, the entitlements are larger than ever, globalization in full effect... there are many new variables. I am more convinced than ever that our post WWII boom had a lot to do with the rest of the world being in ashes.

I hate political parties, lol. But I do tell others that I am willing to take a cut if they will. You know what really chaps my bottom? The AARP blocks all cuts even though all proposals leave current recipients untouched. The selfishness of our elders is simply astonishing.

In the last 10 years, Yellen has the best record of the fed governors. We don't keep records of everyone else so we can't know who might be better. You are falling into guru trap, all financial gurus are great, until they are wrong. There is a long list of folks like that. Glad you think Uncle Ben and Aunt Janet have everything all set, however we are 5 years into cycle with no boom in the organic economy. red flashing lights should be going off. I hope you are right, but my analysis says no, there are way too many structural changes going on. After the last nasty recession in 82, the economy was absolutely booming within 2 years. In those years there were consistent month-to-month prints of job gains in the 400K range with half the workforce. http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet . Can you imagine an 800K job print now? We are still sick and below trend, there will be no unwinding for a long time, if ever.

 

why is it bad to talk in front of whites?

 

You don't see white folks stand in front of a group of black people and talk about whites are lazy, criminals, on welfare, etc.

 

Honestly, I would have love to have seen the reaction of southern conservative whites when King was murdered.

Something tells me that they weren't all that upset...

 

Just picture how most of them reacted when they heard of the Zimmerman case......

 

Lol, I'm sure they did celebrate. I also imagine they probably spoke of King the same way they speak about Obama today.

 

Conservative revisionist history has a lot of people manipulated. Hell, you have people out there who believe the KKK is/was a group of liberals who used to lynch conservatives.

 

Brilliantly truthful stuff!

Amen.

- - - Updated - - -

YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!

Amen to that!!

 

Generally true.

But there are exceptions like Time Wise:
[video=youtube;oV-EDWzJuzk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV-EDWzJuzk[/video]

And funny guys like Louis C.K.:
[video=youtube;TG4f9zR5yzY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY[/video]
(Now that's FUNNY!!! I don't who you are.)

Carlin was on the right track too:
[video=youtube;Dcr8dm9Prkk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcr8dm9Prkk[/video]

 

Yep. That BS fools a few, but as long as most reasonable people get to Google (or other search engine)... I think the right questions will eventually be asked and the truth will be found out.

 

if you take the word "liberal" literally and apply it to the constitution, lynching and racism is by definition taking the constitution too liberally.