So, ultimately, who's responsibility is it?

Nice... Sounds like it was pretty intense.

 

The person doing the actual work is responsible for their own success, NOT the gambler/profiteer.

 

That is great for you, but what is the story of the 50 year old with kids in college, a mortgage, credit card bills, and all the other expenses of life and an elderly mother down the road in bad health when the guy worked in one of those factories when it shut down? If you suddenly can't pay your bills, your credit gets ruined and nobody will rent to you, at least not in any place you would want to live with a family. A kid is in the middle of a semester and living in your basement so do you kick them out or force them to drop out and move with you? Do you put mom in a nursing home and let the taxpayers foot the bill? Do you let your house go into foreclosure when you are a couple years from paying it off since you can't find a buyer because suddenly all those folks in town who would have bought your house are out of work too.

It is too complicated an issue to pretend that just because you or someone else you know did it. I was out of work for 7 months with no unemployment at all once, and even with my parents' help it was a miserable time financially, couldn't even afford to go on a date to a matinee move and all the things people take for granted, slept on my parents' sofa, and I probably went on 20 different job interviews, the first 18 of which I was "overqualified" for; the 19th came down between me and 1 other person after like 8 call-back interviews and I was still waiting to hear when 20 said yes and I said yes even though I did not want the job. Ironically 3 years later one of the companies that was hiring and did not proceed with me past the second stage of their process at the time called me up and acted like they expected me to quit my job that day and scurry on down the following day for stage 3 interview like they were giving me a gift from God just continuing toward a job in their sweatshop factory.

 

The "others" of which you fantasize and I, are each 100% responsible for our own choices.. That others made poor choices and I did not, does not obligate me to do one single thing for them. Are they obligated to do anything for me?

There were lessons to be learned way back in high school. As there are lessons to be learned yesterday, today, and tomorrow. A factory town produces tough kids. We were state champs in football. We had a coach that NEVER cut any player. He worked our butts until only the most motivated stayed and reaped the rewards of our efforts. Losers complained he was a mean coach. Our opponents learned that on game nights, WE were having FUN, while they were getting exhausted. The lesson, you do the WORK before you step on the filed of competition. Those that don't understand that,,,,,,,,,,,,are not my responsibility. THEY are their own responsibility.

If you don't understand that,,,,,,,,,,you are afflicted with the liberal malfunction.

 

Libertarians are hilarious. It always comes around to ignoring facts and science and bringing things back to rhetoric that can defended because rhetoric cannot be proven and science and economics can, which is how sane people make their conclusions about how to make decisions on issues and life.

As well, do you believe it's an individual's fault to be born into a poor family/rich family? Do you think those to people have equal footing from the starting gate? If so, you do not understand anything about the world. And from your other post where we went back and forth (why do you like that roflcopter thing so much? Is that some special button you have on your keyboard? You use it as much as the letter S.)

THe idea of individual responsibility is fault strictly speaking from my example. The idea is that government should make opportunities available to both rich and poor equally. However, we have a shaming society, which you obviously are a part of, where someone without a permanent address has about as much opportunity of getting a job as they do of winning the lottery.

So...which is it? Individual responsibility or opportunity? It's both. A rich kid can go to jail for illegal activities...oh wait, no they don't (see affluenza case in Texas). Your idea of simplifying everything into rhetoric is a poor way to see things and is disingenuous to any topic you apply it to. As well it's quite ignorant of the fact that mountains empirical evidence supports the opposite of what you're saying here.

You might do well to familiarize yourself with the world because you obviously aren't living in it.

 

Well that's certainly interesting considering virtually every economist supports FREE TRADE and relatively FREE MARKETS as economic solutions base on scientific empirical evidence.

Ah yes, and here it is.... So let me guess. YOUR solution is take from the wealthy and hand to the poor to "equalize" the opportunity they both have?

We ALL have equal opportunity NOW. We all benefit from the same infrastructure in place, the same colleges we can go to and the same job market to be employed in.

So why are only SOME taking advantage of their opportunity?

I see. You have irrational hatred and fear of "rich" people which is REALLY what drives your arguments instead of science, logic and reason. Don't feel lonely. "Feelings" are what drives every progressive. If they were capable of logic and critical thinking they wouldn't be progressives.

Oh, I'm living in it. I started out homeless and drug addicted at the ripe age of 19 with a 3/ 12 page juvenile record and a felony arrest SIS for involuntary manslaughter. Nothing like waking up in the hospital with your dad holding your hand and telling you your best friend's DEAD as a result of your negligent driving. That's back when I was a progressive, convincing myself I was just another victim of society with endless excuses as to why I always woke up face down in a ditch or a jail cell.

Then, I sobered up, started TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for my life. Amazing things happened like successful marriage, successfully raising children, being the general manager of a business for 9 years, changing careers into nursing and accomplishing a BSN with a 3.94 GPA and leading my class in the nurses pledge as the class valedictorian, making enough managing to pay the entire $70k tuition in cold hard cash and taking 3 1/2 years off work to focus on my degree, getting hired before I even graduated college, being prodded by management to take a directorship position, etc.

I've LIVED LIFE more than MOST. I've lived both sides of the coin. It's why I can tell you with 100% conviction, progressives are the ones living in lala land. NOT people that live principled lives and place important value on personal responsibility.

The FIRST thing you have to accomplish before you can contribute to society..... is the ability to become self sufficient. That's when you stop TAKING and START GIVING.

 

So your story gives you empirical statistical evidence to tell people that their (*)(*)(*)(*)ty life is their own fault? Again, you're extremist. Good for you, you turned things around. However, people at large are NOT you and it's your self centeredness which clouds your judgement about everything. So take personal responsibility for being an idiot and an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*).

 

Awe.... Did the truth hurt? Do you REALLY need empirical statistical evidence to tell you, you have no control over life?

So take responsibility for what you CAN CONTROL, yourself and how you react to life.

Or continue in default mode expecting life to deal you a winning hand when in reality, you'll be flipping burgers and asking "Would you like an apple pie with that"?

 

Exactly, you literally just proved my point and argued against yourself. You cannot control opportunity and that was exactly what I was saying so thank you for agreeing. It's still nice that you think the way to help people is to laugh at them and call them stupid, lazy, etc. Again, all of your positions are based on your heavily biased emotional responses to personal actions rather than looking outside your bubble. So, whatever.

 

I suppose compassion could be considered a liberal malfunction. It certainly isn't an affliction that those conservatives who profess to be Christians suffer for certain. But, from what I can tell, you you are simply ungrateful for that which your family provided you, that which your university provided you, and that which your employer(s) provided you because you actually had to contribute some effort on your own. Hopefully society that did or does or will be supporting your parents in their retirement, paying for their medical bills, are not of the same mindset as you seem to be.

 

FALSE!!!!!!! I posted you cannot control what happens OUTSIDE of your control DUH AKA LIFE.

You have full and complete control of your opportunities just like ANYONE ELSE. You have the same infrastructure in place as everyone else, the same access to colleges as everyone else and the same access to money as everyone else assuming your business plan is a good as everyone else's.

There ALREADY IS equal opportunity for ALL. Now why only some folks decide to take advantage of it while others are stuck in default mode?

 

Again, your argument is false and your proof is yourself. Also, you can't even type two sentences without sticking an emote in it so I can't even take your debating seriously cause your idea is whimsical and it's presented like a cartoon.

 

That's interesting way to admit defeat and you have nothing left to offer to the debate. I probably would have offered a valid counter-argument but instead I get criticism of emote usage......

You're done. Stick a fork in yourself and call the fat lady.

 

No, you're wrong, that's why I'm done. :
Seriously, all of your points lead to one conclusion which you work backwards from in order to sound correct rather than looking at evidence to find a real conclusion, so there's no point in wasting time with someone who has no interest in learning anything.

 

I know. I'm SOOOOOO wrong, you've never even bothered to show why with any valid. logical counterpoint.

Fat lady running behind?

 

Compassion? Liberal compassion has allowed half of all children born in the USA to be born into single mother homes. That equals liberal legislated slavery. Liberal compassion is killing American spirit. No one receives more support or compassion from you liberals than blacks. 75% of their kids are born into single mother slavery and blacks lead the nation in crime and unemployment and poverty. Your compassion has shown to be the worst punishment any unsuspecting person could expect. Your compassion ROBS people of ambition, self respect, and self esteem and you pat yourself on the back for it. Lunatic nonsense.

I showed compassion by starting and building a business. Hired people and kicked them in the butt insisting they WORK. And they made excellent money. 6 figure incomes. And they felt pride in their accomplishments. And those that did not want to work hard and be as good as they could be, were fired. That was showing compassion for those that did work.

And FYI my parents are long dead since I'm long retired myself. And I have a son that put himself through college. I would have been pleased to pay his way, but that is not the way he thinks. Today he is one of your hated 1%. He has been a millionaire for about 20 years.

And no employer or school GAVE me anything. Schools lay out the material, for a price, and it is up to the individual to take it and use it. Employers, not many since I prefer to be my own boss, pay for what an employee provides them. I provided PROFIT, they were pleased to pay me for that. I did not provide time, labor, hours, attendance, or bullcrap. I provided PROFIT and demanded and was well paid for it.

None of that is within your sphere of knowledge or understanding.