Navy releases map showing location of fleet positions during Benghazi attacks

Can't you read? I just said "very limited". That's my answer. What else do you want?

 

One think I know for a fact, you havent provided anything to this discussion.

Dont you worry, every other poster who reads this thread will know, what your are so desperately attempting to hide.

 

During the Bush years, there were sixty-nine deaths in total over thirteen attacks, an average of over five fatalities per attack. That does not account for the multiple attacks on the US Embassy in Baghdad.

 

oh look, another joke

now that's funny

i wonder if any of them will find post #58

from the link: "Biblical Dinosaurs or Dragons of Lore? Were there dinosaurs on the ark"

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=259326&page=16&highlight=palm+trees

 

all ya need now is some proof with like links and such.

 

When NATO took military intervention to Libya in 2011, NAS Sigonella played an important role in US Operation Odyssey Dawn because of its short distance to the country. As Libya remained unstable in 2013, a Special Purpose Marine Air Ground Task Force–Crisis Response unit was formed and an element of this was moved to the base to be within V-22 range of Libya​

Where were these guys?

And why didn't we fly from elsewhere, say Aviano, and recover in Sigonella?

 

Does that mean you watched a couple of movies, or did you spend a few decades of your life in a service where air power supported you and your missions?

Or have you been a civilian your whole life and all you know is what others tell you?

I would claim that my knowledge is limited. I know a great deal more about enemy forces, their capabilities, their attack profiles, than I do about our forces.

I do know that we own the night. I also know that we can do amazing things from the air against targets being lased from the ground.

 

Al-Qaeda faction to the point of almost declaring military victory in Syria

Flying proudly over the birthplace of Libya's revolution, the flag of Al Qaeda

 

all you're doing is confirming my assertion

 

That you think I didn't know what you were implying (even though my comment made it very clear I did) shows who's really the "special" person around here. Your repeated attempts to insult me are pretty clumsy.

I've seen no evidence of that. You wouldn't have any, would you?
No. Of course not.

Well an even more spot on definition would include a second party at war with the first. Do have any evidence of that?
No. Of course not.

I didn't suggest that at all and wonder if you have even a smidgen of proof to support your comment.
No. Of course not.
I don't claim we can prevent terrorists from attacking us (of course). But we can deter them by taking their provocations with a level of seriousness entirely missing in Benghazi under Hillary Clintong's State Department watch.
See if you can't appreciate the difference between those two terms (prevent, deter).

Speaking of clueless the White House was watching the attack unfold in real time through drone feeds provided shortly after the fighting began. At 9:40, local time, the fighting began and by 10:00 Hillary Clinton is informed of the attack! http://www.cbsnews.com/news/benghazi-timeline-how-the-attack-unfolded/
By 10:05 an alert from the State Department Operations Center goes directly to the White House and approximately 25 minutes after the first shots are fired Obama could have ordered a military response which would have instantaneously begun the process (far from the 1-2 hours you claimed it would take for the information just to work it's way up the chain of command) of getting forces in Benghazi.
That never happened.

There was more than enough time. What we lacked was any will whatsoever.

Boy! You really now your stuff, don't you.....

It really shows!
(the fact that you know nothing of the military, I mean...I've seen no evidence of a fully functioning brain)

Well first of all, physics has nothing to do with the military logistics it would take to get FAST units to Benghazi.
Secondly, I've never seen anyone (repeat, anyone) suggest there were "hundreds" of attackers in Benghazi.

As far as having the time let me refer you back to my CBS link that states that at midnight local time (approximately two and a quarter hours after the attack began) Leon Panetta is finally doing something and, at some point over the next two hours, is ordering platoons of FAST terrorist response units, one to Tripoli (for some reason, since nothing is happening there) and one to Benghazi from Rota, Spain.
This does not seem like the actions of an administration itching to help fellow Americans out.
The fact that Americans were still alive and fighting at some point between 5:15 the following morning and 7:40 means that in total, after first learning on the attack Obama had nearly nine hours (roughly) to respond in some fashion and never did!

Thank you for your professional advice, General Patton.
Why would helicopters be unarmed?

Which would take how many hours...in your professional opinion.

That's what you rationalize, as an apologist in hindsight, anyway. Supposedly the code of the military is no man left behind. Not no man left behind except when there's a chance one of us could get hurt.

Temper, temper my dear.

What are you afraid of (your absurd assumptions of parachuting in, not withstanding)? That terrorists would hear the sound of approaching choppers and run away?

I guess you completely glossed over the part about the live drone feeds that would allow our people to be dropped off a safe distance from the fighting for the helicopters sake. Think about it.

Several miles away? I doubt it, but you seem to be the master military mind here.

The effective range of the RPG is approximately 1,006 yards (about the length of ten football fields). Hardly the sort of range that justifies the claim of "no safe place" for the helicopters to be.
Odd you chide me for my incompetence when you seem to know almost nothing about the subject.

When childish and petulant insults replace facts you may have a point. Until then you fail consistently.

 

Ive already proved all of that, in this very thread. go back and look, then return and apologize.

 

I would never apologize to you because your "proof" is manufactured conjecture. You absolve Bush of blame, and then demand Obama's head for the exact same thing. You're an example of what's wrong with this country.

 

Thats completely false.

I manufacture nothing.

Ive provided proof every time Im asked.

Your just mad cause the daily kos hasnt provided you with an adequate rebuttal to the truth.

 

Actually, I rarely read the Daily Kos. I only posted the article from there because you were too lazy to look it up for yourself. Ergo, I have no reason to be mad because a source I rarely view hasn't done something. Many

Your so-called "proof" wouldn't survive in a court, else the GOP would have passed articles of impeachment against Obama in the House. They know they'd never get a conviction, not just because the Democrats hold the Senate, but also because they know they have no freaking case.

As for absolving Bush of blame, you've done it by saying "Bush didn't do this" or "Bush didn't do that". Obama didn't do it either.

 

You have no idea what you talking about. This isnt just about a terror attack.

 

I don''t? You're the dingbat suggesting that we should have sent hundreds more into harm's way when they probably wouldn't have been able to save the four casualties. You don't risk special operations troops for a "maybe", that's why it took so damn long to go to Abbotabad and get Osama. When you are talking about a covert operation, you make damn sure what you want to do is achievable.

You're right, it's about a bunch of Conservative talking heads who will look to take any opportunity to slam Obama because he's different than them. Then, when you look at their audience, who tend to believe anything they are told by the xenophobes in the Conservative media, primarily because right-wing media will rot braincells faster than sulfuric acid. Combine that with the fact that the average Conservative-media listener is already on the short end of the stick as far as brains go, and you have a perfect storm of idiocy.

The conservatives don't even bother to realize that what they want is physically impossible. But no, somehow, Obama is supposed to be able to bend space and time. Bush can involve us in two wars and cost over 6,700 American deaths and be called a Conservative hero. Obama loses four diplomats in an unprovoked attack, and he's supposed to risk hundreds more in a vain attempt to save those four. DO YOU EVEN LOGIC?

Obama's legacy in 100 years will be of a president who, while not polished enough to be an excellent leader, had enough of the tools to be able to handle two wars that were not his doing and several concurrent crises abroad. He also oversaw the drawing-down of a period of dramatic financial crisis and did his best to expand healthcare to all Americans. That he did all that amidst blatant racist attitudes and a myriad of lies will prove that he was a better president than his predecessor. Let's not forget the fact that, for the past two Congresses, he's had to deal with a bunch of assclowns who will sit on their asses and then blame the president for their own inaction. Had he waited twelve or sixteen years, he had a chance to be in the top ten of historical presidents.

 

Okay. I have a clue about how the Army used to work. Even then we were able to get critical intelligence to anywhere in the chain of command in just a few minutes. From the timeline - the attack started around 3:40 PM Washington D.C. time. The state Department new, in real time because they had two phone lines connections, one encrypted and one open. I imagine that all of the operations and intelligence centers were fully aware by 4PM wadc time. The president was told by 5 PM. Panetta (the Pansy) was at the white house for another meeting. The Pansy says the Marxist (that would be the president, how that might have happened is for a different message thread) told him to do whatever is necessary to protect our people.

Then the Marxist, or president for those with liberal blinders on, disappeared. Some say they saw flying saucers that evening, I, for one, believe those saucers picked up the president and "probed' him until just before he went out to the Rose Garden to boldly lie to the American people the next morning.

By then four Americans had been left to die by a leaderless military.

From my experiences standing alert on an unnamed air force base somewhere in the world we could have the first aircraft in the air in just a few minutes after the alert was called. So by 5:10 PM we could have had a flight of two aircraft aloft and heading toward Libya. If two aircraft were on strip alert they likely would have had the wrong armaments strapped on for a ground fight. Send them anyway. They can find the right location and begin to identify targets that are appropriate for the next two aircraft.

It gets easier if there is a ready task force at naval Air Station Sigonella.

When NATO took military intervention to Libya in 2011, NAS Sigonella played an important role in US Operation Odyssey Dawn because of its short distance to the country. As Libya remained unstable in 2013, a Special Purpose Marine Air Ground Task Force–Crisis Response unit was formed and an element of this was moved to the base to be within V-22 range of Libya​

The attack started at 9:40 PM. By 10:10 they could have been alerted to assemble. If it was a ready task force that might have taken 15 minutes. Most units practice until an alert, even for an actual event, goes smoothly. At the same time toe command group is getting the information it needs to conduct the initial mission briefing. Let's say this is done by 10:25.

Aircraft loadout takes another 10 minutes: 10:35.

Flight time to Benghazi? V-22 Osprey? It can fly at about 250 MPH. Let's say it takes a total time from start of attack to boots on the ground
is 4 hours. There are three plus hours left before Woods and Doherty are murdered. The Osprey can land like a helicopter. Let's say they find a place to land 30 minutes walk from the Annex. They have arrived in time for the fight. More importantly, they have arrived in time to secure the Annex and move to the mission in daylight.

In the meantime fast movers for a combat air patrol over Benghazi, which remains through the night and on into the next day.

To arrive forces have to be told to move. Even if they could not have arrived in time to save lives this would have been a sobering response to the Libyian government and to our enemies in Al Qaeda.

 

Unprovoked, yes, unknown, NO. Who said anything about hundreds of boots on the ground? Hillary Clinton had months to get permission from the Libyan Government and the U.S. Navy to send the U.S.S. New York from the Red Sea to off the shore of Benghazi.

USS New York (LPD-21) - Aircraft carried: Launch or land, two CH-53E Super Stallion, two MV-22B Osprey tiltrotor aircraft, four CH-46 Sea Knight, four AH-1 SeaCobra or four UH-1 Iroquois helicopters.





2 Sea Cobra's could have made short work of the attackers in that open area.

 

First off, we don't need Libya's permission to have the vessel off their coast as long as it stays in international waters. We would need permission for aircraft to enter Libyan airspace. That being the case, a country will likely raise issue with having an American warship parked right off their coast. Plus, the New York, being that it was in the Red Sea, was probably supporting CTF-150 operations, what ship would replace the New York for CTF-150?

"Launch or land", you know what that tells me? The San Antonios are not designed to carry their own helicopters. In fact, the information I found said that they can only fit a single Osprey in their hangar deck. They also are probably not equipped to be a base for attack helos, since they are designed to act in unison with an LHA/LHD which carries the attack helos and the bulk of the MAGTF air assets.

Now, I'm going to sign off. I don't get paid enough to have to deal with retardation of the levels of Benghazi nuts.

 

You would think so called conservatives would grow tired of being stupid and wrong all the time......but they never seem to.

 

Still trying to make attack helicopters operate from destroyers? Maybe you just don't quite grasp how laughable your alleged argument really is.

 

It's hard work trying to take facts and twist them into there was nothing that could be done.

According to the Navy Map in the OP there were only 3 ships at the southern end of the Red Sea in the Gulf of Aden, The U.S.S New York (Amphib}, U.S.S. Rappahannock (Oiler) and the Frigate U.S.S. Halyburton. There were two other destroyers in the area + the Iwo Jima (Amphib) that could have taken it's place. There was plenty that "could" have been done before the attack to prep just in case. In this case it happened. I really don't blame Obama, Embassy Security was the responsibility of Hillary Clinton's State Dept.