I'm cool with letting everyone decide for themselves - which one is most molested. A mother is molested by her own child during pregnancy - or - a prenatal child being targeted and killed by an abortion.
So what? The fact remains your scenario is a 1-dimensional fantasy world in the first place obviously constructed so as to denigrate those with a viewpoint contradictory to yours.
Molested is molested, does your definition state there are different levels of molestation, or is that just something you just felt you needed to add. BTW : nice usage of emotion in your response .. portray the nice 'innocent' zef in the first part and then the bad people who 'murder children' So much for the non-emotional debating
The question asked is straight forward enough, despite the attempt to evade it. Let me put it another way for you - In the states that have the death penalty for 1st degree murder, defined as "a killing which is deliberate and premeditated" would you support such a sentence on a woman charged and found guilty of self-administrating RU-486 in order to abort her pregnancy? No more evading or dodging.
Only,... in an abortion - the child is intentionally killed and more often than not dismembered. That's pretty hard to deny or to ignore. If you are going to claim that the child is molesting the mother who created him or her (during pregnancy) - you need to prove your case against the child. Or do you not agree in the idea that they are 'innocent until proven guilty?'
nope no 'child' is killed in abortion . .you can keep spouting that falsehood all you like it won't make it any truer. not hard at all when there are no children involved in abortion. The evidence speaks for itself. Intent is not always required to establish guilt.
Look at what you said..... My scenario is based on a situation where abortion is illegal and considered "murder". You call that a "fantasy". Well...we agree. Abortion will NEVER be made illegal nor legally considered "murder". Now...tell the "pro-lifers" that. My hypothetical was based on THEM getting what THEY want.....not reality.
And yet, Chuz would NOT execute a woman, nor apparently even give her life in prison, for doing that if abortion was illegal. Make you wonder if he really believes what he says he believes?!?!?
Again, can I claim a point made on this thread? Except for one radical from another Forum, who himself saw how his comments made him look and TRIED to offer "caveats" so he wouldn't look like an American version of a Taliban....but failed.... we see NONE of the "pro-lifers" who scream "Abortion is murder".....who would, if it came down to it, ACTUALLY treat abortion as "murder". Oh, sure, they likely would have jumped at the chance to say they'd execute a doctor who performed an abortion....I suppose I should have tried that first...and THEN sprang "Okay...so what about a woman who self-induces, no doctor involved?"...and then watched them hem and haw and dodge and deflect ...or just plain ol' contradict themselves by saying "No...that's 'different'".....but I decided to be kind ...and just lay it out at the start. Use this yourself....especially with those "pro-lifers" who also support the death penalty (though "life in prison" works equally well)....and who scream "Abortion is MURDER"...ask them- "Okay...if it was illegal...would you TREAT abortion like a murder in the criminal justice system? Or 'something less than mruder'?".....and see similar reactions as you saw here.
"""""Emotions tend to cloud rational thinking """" Which is why, throughout the history of the world, humans have had sex unwisely, not because they're sluts or stupid or lazy or can't keep their pants zipped...but because they're human....and why they will continue to do so...and why keeping an "aspirin between their knees" won't work ...and why BC isn't always used ..and why they developed something to end unwanted pregnancies...and why abortion will never stop no matter how much it's discussed. Lust is definitely an emotion that clouds thinking... If that doesn't sit well with anyone they should contact the manufacturer... the manufacturer created a flawed "widgit".
If people want to have sex, then they should deal with the consequences of their actions. If they get pregnant, then do the right thing and give birth to the baby.
Why should anyone do what YOU think the right thing is? When YOU get pregnant I'm sure YOU'LL do whatever YOU think is right. Now, that has been explained a million times to you as have other things concerning abortion but you keep asking the same questions over and over again....are you paid or just lonely?
I'll elaborate. The goal of banning abortion is NOT to control women. Banning abortion would control certain women, but controlling women is not the reason that I support abortion being illegal.
What's the difference between "women" and "certain women"...are they a different sex? AGAIN: Who else but women get pregnant? Abortion IS to keep women from having abortions, that is CONTROLLING women.
Your "elaboration" doesn't help you Sam....look at it broken down. 1. "My goal is not to control women" 2. "My goal as a pro-lifer is ban abortion" 3. "Banning abortion would control 'certain' women'" You try to claim the adjective "certain" women...buys you cover for "not wanting to control women"....it doesn't. Even if you say "I only want to control certain women"....that means you want to control women, since ANY woman could fall into your category of "certain" simply by wanting to do something YOU don't want her to do....right? Same thing I've said about you before....your line is "I don't want to control women....unless they try to do something I don't like." And all your "nervousness" excuses collapse....when you keep saying things like the above....proving your denial is false.
He doesn't see it. ANY woman...who tries to do something Sam doesn't like...i.e. have an abortion...he wants to control. He's trying to pretend he is "giving them a choice" and that he wouldn't DICTATE to them by essentially saying ...."Don't have an abortion or I'll have to control you" That's like when the Soviets or other Communist countries would say "We are not a dictatorship. We are a democracy....we hold elections all the time"....and they'd have ONE candidate for the citizens to choose from on the ballot, the one hand-picked by the Party. Sam's "democracy" works the same way. "I do not want to take away a woman's freedom! You women will have freedom....unless you do something I don't like, then I'll have to control you!"
Guaranteed?...he's moving to some rightwing forum, where he "won't be outnumbered by pro-abortion liberals using their darn facts and logic". The Becker-heads and Hannitized will welcome him with open arms.
And now we know.....you listen or watch Beck, don't you, Sam? From back when he was on Fox....or the current radio show.....or your parents bought a subscription to "The Blaze TV"....right? What's my problem with Beck? Well, setting aside all politics, would you trust a man who DELIBERATELY LIED to his fans....at an event called "Restoring HONOR"? (BTW, subject changes will prove you are a Beck Cultist)
Instead of asking questions you already know the answer to why can't you asnwer some unanswered questions??
Oh, sure. Watch for links to "The Blaze"....or talk of Beck Boogeymen like Van Jones or Common Core or even "not Rightwing enough for me" Republicans like Mike Huckabee, Lindsey Graham, John Cornyn. Or positive talk about idiots like Michele Bachmann. True, there's some "cross-over" with the Hannitized and the Ditto-heads....but Becker-heads have that certain "air" to them.....lots of "Doomsday any day now" talk (it's how Beck sold over-priced gold and "Food Insurance" to the paranoids in his audience), plus lots of a kind of "Christian anarchy" Utopianism and talk of "morals" and "principles" and "honor".... from people sucked into a guy who's a cross between Elmer Gantry and Gen. James Mattoon Scott. - - - Updated - - - He learns at his Master's feet, FH. It's a common technique of Rightwing Radio hosts, when they actually do let an oppositing caller through.....when they want to change the subject, because they've run out of talking points or the caller is showing them up on a point of logic or fact?.... to do "Wait...let me ask YOU a question, Dave from Buffalo....Why do you hate America?"
[Sarcasm Alert] The goal of keeping slavery is NOT to own all slaves. Allowing slavery would control certain slaves, but controlling slaves is not the reason I support slavery being legal.
