Preparing for war: Russia mobilizes

Preparing for war: Russia mobilizes 150,000 troops as well as 880 tanks, 90 aircraft and 80 ships to 'check' readiness for action​

*** 150,000 troops are on high alert with 880 tanks, 90 aircraft and 80 ships
*** It comes as anti- and pro-Russian protesters clashed in Crimea, Ukraine
*** Yet Russia, whose Naval fleet is near Crimea, denied there was any link
*** Former Ukranian minister Arseny Yatseniuk named tonight as new PM
*** The nation's new government will be more pro-Western and anti-Russian​

By Chris Pleasance and Dan Bloom
26 February 2014


President Vladimir Putin has acted as violence flares in Crimea, the site of a Russian naval base.
Vladimir Putin reportedly ordered 150,000 troops to be tested for combat readiness today as violent punch-ups broke out between groups of protesters in Ukraine.

Russia's defence minister Sergei Shoigu is reported as saying the nation's president ordered the test at 2pm Moscow time.

Some 150,000 troops are on high alert with 880 tanks, 90 aircraft and 80 ships.

The 'war games' came hours before protest leaders in Ukraine - which shares access to the strategically vital Black Sea with Russia - announced a new anti-Russian government following months of protests and deaths.

Violence also broke out today in Ukraine's Crimea region as Muslim supporters of the new government clashed with pro-Russian demonstrators.

But Moscow denied its sudden, previously unannounced action had anything to do with the Ukranian crisis.

A spokesman did, however, say the Russian authorities were taking steps to protect its Navy fleet in the Black Sea.

More than 10,000 Muslim Crimean Tatars rallied in support of Ukraine's interim leaders in Crimea, which borders the Black Sea, waving Ukrainian flags and chanting 'Ukraine is not Russia' and 'Allahu Akbar'.

[Excerpt]

Read more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...overnment-clash-pro-Russian-group-Crimea.html

Hmm... while Obama and Hagel seek to reduce our military to pre WWII levels, Putin threatens both the Ukraine and Crimea. Will there be another attack on these regions similar to the Georgia attack? Will Obama turn his back on both these regions as he did with Georgia, Iran and Syria? Well we have to spend more money on Obamacare, entitlements, and those food stamps while killing the economy and reducing our defenses.

 

Seems odd that the other big papers haven't mentioned anything about this.

If Russia does move I think it likely that they'll secure the Black sea ports before focusing on protection for the Crimea; should it come to that.

 

If there was a coup in Mexico and possible war would it be strange to mobilize some troops to the border?

Anyway the Russians in Ukraine must be protected.

 

And they have every right to despite the wests objections.

 

Riiiight, Just like their attack on Georgia. They were protecting Russians.

 

If the provisional government in the Crimea asks for it.
In this event, we could be seeing something similar to Moldova rather than the 2008 Ossetia conflict.

 

Think before you type. Georgia attacked South Ossetia first. The Russians were just waiting for it.

 

Russia Says It Will Keep Out of Ukrainian Affairs

Russia’s top diplomat said Tuesday that Moscow will not interfere with affairs in Ukraine as the former Soviet nation scrambles to recover from the outcome of a street-based uprising that culminated in the overthrow of the president.

The Kremlin has reacted with barely disguised anger to the ascent to power by political forces that had until last week occupied the ranks of the opposition, but it has been at pains to convey a non-interventionist stance over developments in Ukraine.

“We have confirmed our principled position to not interfere in Ukraine’s internal affairs and expect all [foreign powers] to follow a similar logic,” said Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

Lavrov said it would be “dangerous and counterproductive” to give Ukraine an ultimatum of “either you’re with us or against us.”

On Saturday, Lavrov cautioned the U.S. against meddling in Ukrainian affairs and making inflammatory comments.

"I told [U.S. Secretary of State] John Kerry that it is very important now not to interfere in the process and to avoid any statements that will only heat up the situation," Lavrov said in an interview with state television news program Vesti v Subbotu, according to Reuters.

"I hope he heard me," Lavrov added.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140225/187880397/Russia-Says-It-Will-Keep-Out-of-Ukrainian-Affairs.html
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Who are the warmongers? Not Russia. I could name the 2 rouge states, but won't for now. Let's see how bold they will get.

 

Personally, I cannot see any other solution than for Ukraine to be split politically. I think under the circumstances this is the best solution for all sides. The following is an interesting take on the current situation by former UK diplomat, Craig Murray:

".....The key to this is that two thirds of Russian speaking Ukrainian nationals view themselves as ethnically Ukrainian, not Russian. Only a third of Russian speakers, a sixth of the general population, regard themselves as ethnically Russian. It does appear to be true that among those who view themselves as ethnically Russian, there is a significant desire for union with Russia, and that there is probably a majority in some Eastern provinces for that idea, probably including Crimea. But the area involved is far smaller than the linguistically Russian area.

Ethnicity is of course a less tangible concept than linguistic identity, and has little claim to objective reality, particularly in an area with such turbulent history of population movement. But it is futile to pretend it has no part in the idea of a nation state, and is best regarded as a cultural concept of self-identification.

The historical legacy is extremely complex. Kievan Rus was essential to the construction of Russian identity, but for Russia to claim Kiev on that basis would be like France claiming Scandinavia because that is where the Normans came from. Kievan Rus was destroyed and or displaced by what historical shorthand calls the Mongal hordes, almost a millennium ago. Ukrainian history is fascinating, the major part of it having been at various times under Horde, Lithuanian, Polish, Krim Tartar, Galician, Cossack Federation, Russian and Soviet rule.

Still just within living memory, one in seven Ukrainians, including almost the entire intellectual and cultural elite, was murdered by Stalin. An appalling genocide. Like Katyn a hundred times over. That is the poisonous root of the extreme right nationalism that has rightly been identified as a dangerous element in the current revolution. Pro-western writers have largely overlooked the fascists and left wing critics have largely overlooked Stalin. His brutal massacre and ethnic cleansing of the Krim Tartar is also relevant – many were forcibly deported to Uzbekistan, and I have heard the stories direct.

Having served in the British Embassy in Poland shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union, I regard as blinkered those who deny that membership of the European Union would be a massive advantage to Ukraine. In 1994 there was very little difference in the standard of living in both countries – I saw it myself. The difference is now enormous, and that really means in the standard of living of ordinary working people. Poland’s relationship with, and eventual membership of, the European Union has undoubtedly been a key factor. Those who wish Ukraine instead to be linked to the raw commodity export economy of Putin’s Russia are no true friends of the working people. Ukraine’s accidental boundaries include, of course, the great formerly Polish city of Lvov.

Ukraine is an accidental state and its future will be much brighter if it is a willing union. It needs not just Presidential and Parliamentary elections, but also a federal constitution and a referendum on whether any of its provinces would prefer to join Russia. That can give an agreed way forward to which Russia might also subscribe, and defuse the current crisis. It would suit the long term interest of both the Ukraine and the West. I fear however that the politicians will be too macho to see it."

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/02/why-should-ukraine-not-split/

 

Putin will be certain to do whatever is necessary to safeguard Russians in the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine. He will also vigilantly defend the naval base of the Russian Black Sea Fleet at Sevastopol.

The "powder keg" potential is probably focused on dangerous, erupting conflict between Ukrainian Russians and militant Ukrainian Muslims in the Crimea region. If ethnic Russians are attacked and killed, I don't doubt that Putin will order a Russian "protective peace-keeping" force into eastern and southern Ukraine at a moment's notice! The same is true if any of the pro-Western Kiev faction try to pull any crap on the Russian Black Sea Fleet. NYET!

The biggest challenge, obviously, is for the EU to somehow take on another big beggar-nation with its economy in the toilet. The International Monetary Fund loaned Ukraine huge amounts of money in 2008 and 2010, but the Ukrainians would not comply with the requirements. But now the EU (spearheaded by the Germans) will be tasked to scram together about $35 Billion Dollars in one hell of a big hurry to "welcome" the Kiev-faction into the EU "family" because you can bet Putin will now withdraw his offer to save Kiev. When the EU does this, they will probably catch hell from Putin in the form of much higher natural gas prices. We'll see.

Secretary of State Kerry and his boss would do well to keep their noses out of Ukraine. Putin won't tolerate any American meddling in what he considers to be his private backyard, and Americans don't want it, either.

 

How many Americans are you willing to sacrifice to defend Ukraine from Russia? Round numbers will be sufficient- 100? 1,000? 10,000?

You seem to think that the United States must be willing to intervene basically in any region that you define as worthy of U.S. military intervention.

What other parts of the world do you want the United States to stand by and be ready to sacrifice our soldiers for?

See, I am all for a strong military. I am all for meeting our treaty obligations. But I am scratching my head as to why we need to be ready to stand by to go to war with Russia over the Ukraine- who we have no obligations with and who has not asked for our help.

 

The biggest challenge is how Putin will win this war with out oil/gas source of income (90% of GDP) the first what U. will do -it will cut all Russian oil/gas pipe line in U. , Belarus stars to buy Russian oil/gas on borders for 1/3 of the world prices, much like Russia does with Uzbekistan´s gas today

 

It is just so the OP can complain about something. If you recall he was screaming from the rafters over the intervention in Libya, complains about increasing debt, all while expecting America to take on all comers anywhere in the world

 

How about four killed, just where is the acceptable number? Is it acceptable to order soldiers not to shoot when a terrorist has a weapon pointed at you until he fires. I am not suggesting that we load up and invade Russia, or overthrow a government like Obama did in Libya, or Egypt without authorization from Congress. I am also not suggesting that Obama even offer a thin red line in the sand, which he already has. I am suggesting that he begin acting like a president and conduct meaningful foreign relations with our adversaries. Neither am I advocating war nor putting boots on the ground.

 

Turn our backs on what? The Crimea is just as much a part of Russia as New York City is to us. Khruschev gifted it to Ukraine and when they decided to split from Russia they should have given it back. If you noticed, the people there are waving Russian flags, are forming their own militia and have road blocks to keep the Nazi thugs and Tatar jihadists away. Don't these people have any right or is it only the Nazis from Western Ukraine that have rights?

 

Yes they were protecting the people who lived in S. Ossetia and Abhazia from the Georgian government after they had declared their independence. Hey who said only the American colonies had a right to independence?

 

Yes they are not going to interfere in the Ukraine anymore than the U.S. and E.U. didn't interfere. I guess one lie deserves another.

 

So you dont want him to act but you want him to conduct meaningful foreign relations. And what if Putin is not interested in anything the US wants to say - What then, oh he failed. Great job setting up win win scenarios for yourself.

The Ukraine is well outside the US sphere of influence, always has been. The US has four NATO nations bordering the Ukraine, so if the fighting spills out over the borders the US has an automatic in for any fighting that is going to take place. So right now the play is the one Obama is calling. Wait!

 

Do you realize that almost every thread you start are about "a new threat of war!"

Either you are suffering from delusional paranoia, or you are a devoted war and fear monger!

DUH!

 

And the OP has to neatly ignore any prudent leader will test the readiness of their own forces if a potential civil war appears to be developing in a neighboring country

 

I think that is silly. They have lived together through rain and shine for a long time. Why split now? Are you sure there isn't some outside push and shove going on? I mean, we have noticed this pattern already a few times before, haven't we? And now, just when Russia was most busy with the Olympics. Makes one wonder????

Murray seems to be a decent guy and has now, as a "former diplomat", the freedom to disperse his wisdom.
Certainly, I think that Ukraine's recent history with the Stalin Regime has made a lasting impact on their psyche. My concern is that their western supported break-up is not for the love of the Ukrainian people, but for military strategy to relieve Putin of a good chunk of dirt.
Is that a point for debate?

 

Putin will do more than that, but he will bide his time for now.

The proportion of Muslim Tatars in Crimea is being exaggerated by Turkey in order to give the impression that they have legitimate claims on the Crimea the way they did with Cyprus before they invaded. Russia is giving Turkey a warning to butt out.

Putin is not giving any of the money since it does not recognize the government. As for the IMF loan, they will be paying if off for the next fifty years, in other words Ukraine will now be owned by Germany. If the terms weren't so harsh, Yakunovich wouldn't have backed out of it.

The best thing is for the industrialized Eastern section which is predominantly Russian to break off together with the Crimea and let the Western Ukrainians get what they wanted. As Putin said, good luck.

The U.S. has been meddling heavily in Ukraine, and according to Nuland they even have the next President picked out. But you are right, the American people will not stand for any more meddling, everyone's getting a little fed up. The destruction of Syria was enough.

 

So in other words this is just another excuse for you to complain about Obama.

I think it is pretty obvious that if Obama did any of the things that you suggest that the next day you would be criticizing him for doing that too.

 

Putin will not negotiate with Obama because he sees a weakling punk in Obama. Someone claimed that Russians were in jeopardy when Georgia proclaimed independence as the reason for the invasion. Just how many 'Russians' were persecuted or killed when Georgian independence was declared?

 

I only posted what was printed by the Daily Mail. I guess if our Lane Stream Media were on the job they would have printed it too. Would you have preferred that I not informed you and anyone that cared to read the partial article I posted?