Who brought sin and death to the earth? Man, Satan or God?

Who brought sin and death to the earth? Man, Satan or God?

Adam and Eve have been blamed for bringing both sin and death to the earth. I have a hard time agreeing with that view.

On sin.

Some believe that Eve was first to sin when she ate of the tree of knowledge.
Some say Adam because Eve was deceived.

I see that as the second command ignored as God told A & E to reproduce in Gen 1 and that command was completely ignored.

I believe that Satan or the talking snake may have sinned first because to tempt someone to sin makes the tempter culpable and not the one deceived. Satan first or God thanks to what I say below

I also believe that that God also sinned before A & E did, through omission, as many of the consequences and benefits of eating of the tree of knowledge were withheld from A & E by God. That is easily demonstrable. Count them and see that of the many, God only spoke of one and omitted the rest.

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On death.

Adam is said to have brought death to the earth through his sin but as shown above he was likely not the first sinner.

The first death that the bible speaks of is when God kills animals to make clothes for A & E.

The next death is done by God of A & E by locking away the tree of life.

It appears that God himself brought death to the earth.

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Who do you think the first sinner was and who do you see as the first killer?

Regards
DL

 

Is the Bible truth?

If it is, then you'll want to understand how to apply it to your life. If it's not, obviously all you're doing here is trying to prove that it isn't truth. Are you trying to "save" people? What's your objective?

 

Reply to the O P and then I will be happy to reply to your off topic question.

Regards
DL

 

Sin is relative based on the morality of the society your in. Death is part of nature we are born and die science and technology can augment this.

 

I don't think I understand your question (I often don't understand your questions, so nothing new there), still ...

The natural state of humans includes quite a bit of crappy stuff, and as well as really awesome good stuff. Most of us muddle through balancing both, some of us go a little heavier one way or the other. Environment, upbringing, culture, blah blah.

Attributing anything humans do to external agency is bizarre, obviously (given I'm an atheist), and strikes me as just another way for adults to avoid actually growing up.

 

God created the whole mess.
If he didn't want A & E to eat the fruit of the trees he should not have planted them. It is he that was the tempter. Likewise it is he who created the serpent. There is no blame but on the creator.

 

that's a curly one, ain't it! I've tried asking christians why god would plant a tree he didn't want anyone to touch, and plant it right in the line of sight of two hungry nudists. no one has ever given me a logical explanation. you get things like "he was testing them" - which begs the question, why? if anyone gets to this point they don't go further. or rather, they respond with "god works in mysterious ways". which is the same as saying "don't make me think about stuff my pastor hasn't prepared me for". some will respond to question of why he needed to test his latest product with "it's arrogant to question god", though. I always enjoy that response, as it tells me much about the style of indoctrination of the individual. i.e., fear based.

 

All that truth does nothing to discredit a myth that has been used against women forever.

Believers don't care about truth and only superficially about their own dogma and that superficiality is what I go after.

Regards
DL

 

Perhaps if you would just give your conclusion of the myth as it pertains the O P lead question without reading anything else that would end the confusion. That can be done I think.

Regards
DL

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Logic and reason. I agree.

Regards
DL

 

this does appear to be the case, more often than not. it's sad to see such a wilful disregard for truth.

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I'll give it a red hot go

 

Ha! Take my flame bait, and then I'll answer. You're a riot!

Again, if you don't believe the Bible is true, what is your point? Admit you're a Christophobe trying to get away with as many flame bait threads as possible before one of the heathen moderators finally has no choice but to censor you.

 

You would rather have no choice in your life about who you serve?? God loves us and created us to love Him back, but unless that love is choice, it's not love. If there is only one flavor of ice cream, you can never have a favorite flavor since there's only chocolate. Choice is at the core of what love is. God wants us to love Him and it's why we were created, so we have to have a choice in order to love. A & E were given a choice to obey as did Satan. Both choose poorly and we have all paid for their choices, although eventually someone would have made the choice to disobey and we would still be right where we currently are. Also, A & E were in rebellion against God BEFORE they ate of the Tree. He had instructed them go forth, multiply and take dominion and yet they were still hanging out in the middle of the Garden (where the Tree was) when they made the first sin of commission rather than a sin of omission.

 

Pfft.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493

Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_BVzw&feature=related

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

 

Then carry on with your little crusade.

Do you believe in absolute morality?

 

So God is ok with sin's of omission and is only upset by sins of commission. Right?

Tell us. How can two people multiply when they do not even know they are naked and are innocent of all such thinking?

Reproduction is a choice and without the knowledge of good and evil, no desire to reproduce is possible.

Reproduction has good and evil aspects and A & E could not possibly known anything about reproduction before eating of the tree of knowledge. Right?

Regards
DL

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No worries. I have a social conscience and know my duty to others.

Give an example or two of absolute morality.

Regards
DL

 

Where does your social conscience come from? Is God the ultimate moral authority for you or not? If so, which God. Is it the God of Abraham, and you like some parts of the Bible, but feel religion has botched most of it? I don't know what an Agnostic Christian believes. The word Christian must mean some belief in Christ, right? What other source for info on Christ is there besides the Bible? I realize there are some texts that didn't make it into the Bible. Is it a belief in any one or more of those over the Bible that you subscribe to?

 

Philosophically speaking sin was the minuscule price paid to escape the agony of infinite existence .

 

Morals are developed by individuals and taught to the group to insure peaceful co-existence. When one is alone like your God was in the beginning, there is no reason to develop them and that is why your God always almost always kills when he could take the moral high ground and cure those he created defective.

I learned mine the same way we all do. Through interaction with peers and from what I have read and been taught by others.

Let me ask you a question even though I note that you do not like to answer much.

Should/is your first tenet of morality be centered on others and their benefit, or should it be centered on yourself and your benefits?

Know that I will be comparing your answer to your God's if you choose to answer.

Regards
DL

 

Whoever and whatever created the earth created evil.

And don't christians claim that their god created everything, so they HAVE to believe god created evil...what an evil thing to do!

 

That is a good possibility but we do not really know if infinite existence is agonizing or not. The writers of stories of the Shangri-La genre say that boredom would eventually cause the agony you speak of.

Logically and intuitively it should be, I think, but some things have been shown to be counterintuitive.

Regards
DL

 

Your logic is sound and I agree but Christians tend not to agree.

Logic and reason does not phase their faith of fools.

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “

Regards
DL

 

I submit to God's moral authority.

Romans 7

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

 

Good post and true....but are you saying that christians don't agree that their god created the world and everything in it??

 

That is all well and good but you did not answer my question showing that you did not like your answer.

Strange that Christians claim all the answer but never answer questions.

I am not surprised that you cannot answer a moral question as your have been corrupted by your religion.

It must be hard on your ego to always have to deflect and hide.

Regards
DL

 

No.
I am saying that they are quick to say that he is the creator of all things but then that they say that he did not create evil even as their book says he did.

They have some other source for evil attributes even though they say that God is the epitome of all attributes.

It is like they do not see that they are putting some other force/name above God's as the creator of evil.

That is why logic is a whore to them. They cannot fight it and just put their heads in the sand whenever logic and reason are about.

Regards
DL