Freedom of movement to be extended to Romanians and Bulgarians

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by BritishBoy, Dec 16, 2013.

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Should freedom of movement be extended to Romanians and Bulgarians?

  1. Yes

    25.0%
  2. No

    37.5%
  3. Yes but have caps

    25.0%
  4. Scrap freedom of movement all together

    18.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    A month since work restrictions have been lifted... See? Nobody came. Pathetic paranoids...
     
  2. BritishBoy

    BritishBoy New Member

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    Nomore that what was before, I suspect that's because they don't get out welfare. They don't fit into British society.
     
  3. Stadhouder

    Stadhouder New Member

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    Freedom of movement is a direct attack on the sovereignty of the European nation-state. It causes problems like brain-drain in the poorer parts of Europe and results in a flooded market of low-skilled workers in the richer parts. Crime is another issue: career criminals will use this to strike everywhere in Europe and avoid police jurisdiction when it gets "too hot".
     
  4. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Welfare...welfare...welfare... Why do uk people mention the word welfare over and over again? It almost looks like a central part of your culture fgs. Here it's not. That's why 90% of the people either here or anywhere else, whatever their social situation is, would never think of requesting it.
     
  5. BritishBoy

    BritishBoy New Member

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    www.google.com/images?q=romanian+sl...pera-mini-android&channel=new&gws_rd=cr&hl=en

    If you could have it you would. Romania is a third world country and not a friend if Great Britain, unskilled labour is not needed, it causes social problems so why should they come here.

    Personally I think welfare should be cut here, it's far too high however should I be a poor person I would want it.

    I read somewhere eles a large influx of Romanians hasn't come because they don't get our welfare and/or can't afford the plane tickets.
     
  6. Stadhouder

    Stadhouder New Member

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    They keep mentioning it because they don't want their tax money going to people who come and flood an already tight job-market. Giving people the right to welfare (and I think this should apply to locals as well) right of the bat leads to people who are content to leech of the system and never contribute a single penny/cent
     
  7. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Nope, nobody thinks of asking for such a thing.

    Who said GB should be a friend? I did not. You just imagine things unilaterally. Regarding the economy you got no idea what a 3rd world country is. Our industries growing, including the automotive. Our main trade partners are the top 3 Eurozone economies: France, Germany, Italy.

    We started exporting lots of SUVs lately:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Romanian car industry, further reading:

    http://www.dacia.ro/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Romania

    http://www.dacia.ro/modele-si-preturi/noul-logan/




    Aerospace industry:

    Romaero, our airliner manufacturer:

    http://www.romaero.com/

    Also, read this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avioane_Craiova

    http://www.aerostar.ro/militare.php

    http://www.acv.ro/index.php




    Romanian industry:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_of_Romania


    What you do with your welfare is not a matter of concern to me. What makes you think it is, in sucha way that you keep talking about it?

    My family could buy a house with a lot of land there. But we got no reason for it. What you fail to see is that prices are getting equalized across all of the European Union.
     
  8. BritishBoy

    BritishBoy New Member

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    Actually Romanias do, you come for free healthcare and if they could get welfare they would be over here in a flash.

    If we're not even friends why should we just open our doors to you?

    I think I would question freedom of movement with brilliant countries such as the US and Australia, but with a third world country it's a joke.

    Good for you! But as I said you economic growth doesn't put you in the same league.

    Because that is one of the main issues with Romanian unskilled immigrants.


    I never said you was a poor person?
     
  9. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Being part of the EU is not mandatory, so get out at once. You've been members for 41 years. How much longer do you need to make up your mind? Waiting for a new ice age to take care of your so called 'border problem'?

    Do you have any evidence on this, other than private news agencies whose honesty is so questionable? I'm talking about official numbers, figures, not press articles.

    What kind of data or evidence do you have other than what your TV tells you?
     
  10. Woeler

    Woeler New Member

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    Tough, but meaningless talk. That is not as easy as it sounds.
     
  11. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    The propaganda machine that thrives on angry stupid people holds you too as one of its results as it forgets to mention how many medics, surgeons, IT specialists, all schooled in Romania, with Romanian money, are being enjoyed ready-made by the British system. The numbers of highly qualified tax payers we have there are more than enough to pay for any poor people with Romanian citizenship that might be asking for welfare. So basically Romanians are paying for Romanians' welfare so better shut up because you don't know shiit about anything whatsoever.
     
  12. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    Source?
     
  13. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Not long ago you told me you work with them, even explained to me of the great numbers of medics we've already lost to the UK and that such things will continue.

    http://www.standartnews.com/english...el_rising_tide_of_patient_hostility-2630.html
     
  14. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    Yes, Vlad, I remember that conversation, but obviously I should have stripped your comment down to the part I wanted the source of. I'll try again ...

    What's your source?
     
  15. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Your standards in the UK demand excessive confidentiality and thus there are no public figures listing welfare users by citizenship or nationality. However, apart from the doctors there's engineers, IT specialists and others in related fields, several thousand in all. Then you can add a few thousand more who are not highly qualified but who occupy high positions in a private business or run one. Overall, the value of the products and services of all these people should be enough to cover any welfare that any Romanians might demand there.

    But first you should ask your Dutch Nazi friend this question. He's the one who started this chat by saying that Romanians & Bulgarian are 'leeching' welfare systems of Western Europe. Been looking for an hour on the web and still can't find a list of who is using welfare in the UK, so how did he?

    But answer me this question: Why do you start from the premise that there are Romanians living on benefits? Your argument, that of Farage as well as that of the Dutchman above is based on pure assumption. No proof to back these claims up.

    But one thing you can see, however, is that in the past two months nobody new came there despite the full employment rights that have been granted. This is a compelling observational analysis in regards to how keen Romanians are on moving to the UK in particular. I don't know about other eastern Europeans but I do know about mine, and that is that most people here aren't that interested in the UK in particular. There is a moderate interest for Italy and Germany but even in this case, those who go there work (don't demand benefits at all; they don't; they really don't). Also... I'm not too sure of the details but as far as I know Germany simply does not grant welfare or benefits of any sort to those who don't work unless they have worked for a long period of time and have lost their job recently.
     
  16. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    One of the many benefits of freedom of movement. EU citizens get to come in without being questioned by the authorities.
    Pot, kettle, black! Assumptions are all the rage now. Where's your evidence for saying he's a Nazi? Using such insults says more about you than him. And we're not friends. I've never even had a conversation with him.
    Quote something Farage has ACTUALLY said and we'll deal with that. There are enough Youtube videos and newspaper reports on what he's said on the subject. Links to back up your claims are needed.
    Wrong. We had film of people arriving at the airport on the very first day. One of our MPs went to greet the first one through the arrivals gate.

    I live here and I see the evidence for myself. There have been many more foreign born people here now. In our town and cities we now here all sorts of languages being spoken. I have no idea which particular countries they are from, and our spineless authorities keep that quiet and don't even keep records for EU citizens ... freedom of movement and all that, and extending that right to Romanians and Bulgarians just enlarged the problem. The UK benefits system does give benefits to immigrants, so far at least, on the same basis as UK citizens. Idiocy, I know.
     
  17. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    But even before the 2007 enlargement, they did not keep records, so whose fault is it?

    Where are the 29 million he spoke about?

    [​IMG]


    Who were only returning from holidays, people who had been living in England for years. Remember that it was January.


    You hear only what you want. There's a great distinction between Slavic and Latin languages. Romanian is the only Latin country of Eastern Europe and it sounds very much like Portuguese. I thought your grasp of foreign languages was decent enough for you to be able to tell a Latin language from a non-Latin one.
     
  18. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    I didn't say it was anyone's fault. I really can't help you if you try to read more into my comments than is there.
    Eh? UKIP said 29m would be allowed to come here. That is a simple, easy to understand, fact. It doesn't need backing up. If UKIP had said 29m would come you might have had cause for complaint, but they did not.
    Because there are Romanians are on record saying that.
    I still don't know which argument you're referring to.

    A previous Conservative govenrment allowed citizens of the EU (and this applied to future citizens too) the right to come here. Current and future governments must accept that as a condition of EU membership. I believe UK immigration policy should be solely a matter for the UK government, not the EU.
    Wrong again. When interviewed they said they were new to this country and were here to look for work. No one has said that every Romanian or Bulgarian person entering this country is doing so as a result of their right to access the UK labour market/claim benefits.
    Vlad, please stop being tedious. I've politely asked you before, don't tell me what I want, know or think. I haven't eavesdropped on their conversations. Nor have I listened to them closely enough to discern the differences in their accents. I do know they are foreign. Nor do they all look like skilled professionals. And yes, that's an assumption, but seriously, do you think these people look like skilled professionals? If however you think all Romanian immigrants are productive, tax paying prospects, you will have no objections to a UK government's immigration quota system?

    ROMA-PARK-LANE_2686480b.jpg

    It doesn't make any difference whether they are Eastern Europeans, Southern Europeans, Asians or Africans or Roma. We still haven't got the space, the jobs or the capacity in our public services to cope.
     
  19. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Your help... last thing anyone might need.

    There's people of every nation saying everything sayable. Prove the numbers of those who do. Show some vids.

    Ok so you haven't paid attention to accents and stuff. You just know they're foreign. This means they could have come from anywhere. And yet you say Romania is responsible for this. How can it be responsible for those from other countries than itself?

    The pic proves nothing. Could have been taken anytime, anywhere. It's not at the airport. It could be from 5 or 7 years ago. I wanna see a hundred pictures from the airports, dated, showing people like this at the arrival gates.
     
  20. munter

    munter New Member

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    I've voted 'Yes, but with caps'

    so, if there is a clear need or skill set, then yes , but hordes of unskilled is a firm NO.

    what next - allow in boatlaods of Bangladeshis, Ugandans, Cambodians - till we all work for bread and rice?

    no way
     
  21. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    When you can deal with what I've actually said, I'll reply.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I voted scrap free movement altogether. The UK government should set the caps.
     
  22. munter

    munter New Member

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    well, that's what I meant really, the UK govt sets the caps - let some people in, but not a free-for-all.

    and the whole benefits thing is a joke, because the dole in UK pays more than a job in Bulgaria, why not come over?
     
  23. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    False. A gross underestimation of the Bulgarians I would say.
     
  24. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Can deal with what? What have you said? I think you've said nothing, other than Romania is responsible for non-Romanian immigrants from all of Europe and worldwide. How can that be? It is the simplest matter here and you don't deal with it. ;)

    In this case it can EITHER BE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. They EITHER ARE Romanian citizens or are NOT. They can't be in between, that's for sure. And you haven't got a clue or a means to prove where different people are coming from yet they have to be Romanian or Bulgarian citizens just because you want it to be that way. No dated reports, no pictures, no videos, no interviews, nothing. Period...
     
  25. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    Oh FCOL! I have NEVER said that "Romania is responsible for non-Romanian immigrants from all of Europe and worldwide" or anything even touching on that. I'm disgusted that someone like you can have any bearing on what happens in the UK. [And I don't want to have even the smallest say as to what happens in Romania either.]
     

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