What is really going on in Ukraine

All I know is that I hope your right sector ends up getting its ass kicked.

And I know this - America will end up being more a part of the problem than the solution in the Ukraine. No matter how democratic we would like to think we are, we are 100% controlled by invisible forces. Our decisions have always been made at the old money level. And your right sector appeals to them.

 

Ender8419 !

Perfect analysis !

 

I also joined this forum to post on this issue...as the handle says...an Englishman living and working primarily in Kharkiv and many other places in Ukraine since 2000....my family is Ukrainian, wife, daughter and so on and so forth.... so perhaps I have a perspective

There are many valid points from many comments here and I wont argue them.... For me the overriding questions are who started this and why?

Doesn't it seems strange to anyone that this kicked off due to a relatively minor pro EU protest group visit to Kiev that backfired....

Even stranger that with elections coming up in early 2015 surely the smart move would have been for people to wait and vote Yanukovich out....why didn't that happen

It didn't happen because Putin didn't want it to happen....because then its possible a government without Yanukovich would have been formed that would have wanted closer ties to Europe...a government that would have been less amenable to Russia and broken his megalomaniacal dream of having his own economic cartel of friendly nations to rival the EU

So who was perfectly motivated to create this crisis from the very seed of its beginning under the guise of it being the work of pro Europeans and fascists....Putin

It would have taken only a few well placed instigators at local level in Ukraine to rally a well meaning but naïve cause for a pro euro demo to go to Kiev....Instigators who fuelled it and planned for it to ignite....(undoubtedly with the unwitting help and money of foreign un-intelligence services who could have mistaken the uprising as an 'opportunity')

All the while Putin's propaganda machine is externally playing the separatists against each other in Ukraine.... fanning flames that gave them all the excuse they needed for 'intervention' in Crimea and unrest in Donetsk and Kharkiv....this is a repeat of Georgia in 2008

And knowing full well that Yanukovich was a spent force for Putin's continued influence over Ukraine, even the request of Yanukovich to send in Russian troops was all in the model.

Look out Kazakhstan ...you have a very high proportion of Russian passport holders living in your country that could suddenly appear victimized in the event that you chose to reconsider the cartel membership with Russia.

Ukraine is for Ukrainians to manage....not Russian flag waving mobs to force

Putin had planned this a long time...he was ready.. he was too ready....he didn't react to the situation.....he created every single step of it.

Can he be stopped?....long way will take years.....short way takes good aim.

 

Mmm...Seems a reasonable hope.
Neo-Nazis are a waste of protoplasm- wherever they surface; but- SVR videos aside, they are little more than a fragment of the populace.

Phoebe,what do you hope for as to the Left section ? (You DO know the Left section is still very strong, I trust ?)

Do you believe the people of Ukraine have the right to form militias to defend themselves from the Wingnuts of Right and Left---and the Russian invasion ??

If you-an American- feel so strongly America should just look the other way, why are YOU still commenting ??

Did someone pass the torch to your reluctant hand, or did you just want to primp and preen at the expense of your homeland ??

 

Here's a video with a very disturbing analysis of the Ukraine situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHqExUDPYvA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I've found it weird since the beginning that a bunch of debtor nations could be so ballsy as to go poking around in Russia's back yard and then have the hubris to act innocent in it all. This, despite the evidence of our meddling and the makeup of the makeup of the new Ukrainian government. Our complicity is being masked by our media, along with the neo-Nazis in this government.

This is all thinly veiled propaganda that is easily seen through with just a little research. This 'Putin the Invader' narrative is what the Western press is selling in order to do.....what??

Whatever it is, it can't be good.

 

Here are some thoughts on the matter:

http://mrmeangenes.com/2014/03/16/blood-for-oil-sure-says-vlad-putin/

 

hands off the ukraine!!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

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Ender8419 You offered an excellent and in depth explanation of what really is going on in Ukraine. May be a few of the participants of this forum would learn something. Major forces supporting Maidan government are EU and our President Obama with Mr. Kerry. They do not give a dime for what people feel and need. They play in a big historical theater scene and can easily afford themselves to be ********s for some period of time.

 

Ok you have your own opinion i respect that. I have mine and want to discuss it with you. Of course if you really join forum to answer my post, but not just say something and walk away. We will see if you are really interested person or not

Your quotes:
-...a government that would have been less amenable to Russia and broken his megalomaniacal dream of having his own economic cartel of friendly nations to rival the EU

So it is ok for EU or USA to have their economic cartels but not for Russia. Sounds a bit unfair don`t you think? How about antimonopoly and alternatives?

- So who was perfectly motivated to create this crisis from the very seed of its beginning under the guise of it being the work of pro Europeans and fascists....Putin

There are was already pro-russian government of Yanikovich which was ready to sign agreement with Russia instead of Europe. But nevertheless Putin decide to overthrow it to just because there is a chance that on next election there are can be pro-european government. For that Russia organize mass riots and worked with neo-Nazi to control crowd. In result Ukraine have pro-european government in Kiev right now full of neo-nazi and in just one step to became NATO member. Also Russia now have a neighbor country with a lot of people who hate Russia.
In what galaxy this is looks like a reasonable plan of Russia?

-All the while Putin's propaganda machine is externally playing the separatists against each other in Ukraine.... fanning flames that gave them all the excuse they needed for 'intervention' in Crimea and unrest in Donetsk and Kharkiv...

I see lot of propaganda from both side but i see no reason for Russia to separate Ukraine. Maybe Russia want whole Ukraine that is possible. In case of separation Russian will have big hateful country right near russian borders. Also if citizens of Crimea want to live in Russia not Ukraine i will respect that.

 

Please explain how what happened in Kiev was NOT an old fashioned "putsch".
Why NOT wait for the next scheduled elections as "good" Turks disgusted with Erdogan do.
I am truly disgusted "The West" recognizes the Kiev government. It smells of someone's "profits".

Enders8419, notice when ever The West gets involved in other peoples affairs, like Syria, or Afghanistan, or Egypt, or Iraq, etc. etc. people like you are only good press and nothing more.
YOU are worse off for Western involvement in the internal affairs of your nation. True ?
Good Luck to you and thank you for being here.


Moi

View attachment 25955
Now more than ever !​

 

Me too.

Thanks!

Thank you. That's why I'm here to give some local details and view of direct observer.

This is brilliant. Truth itself. Thank you very much.

 

You ask the right questions. I think it is all a politics of double standards. You know nobody judge the winners. If you win you can claim it "national revolution!" what is in fact a typical armed seizure of power. Also Rights Sector is not agree when we call them neo-Nazi. They says "we are just proud Ukrainians". But what about your symbols and principles? They are just like Nazis. "No they don`t! It is not a "wolfsangel", we use flipped version, and 14/88 means nothing, and those guys on videos is not from Right Sector, whoever can use our flags to make provocations. We are good guys. Believe me"

And i think West should be involved politically. It can be a great help but I din`t know if it possible. For example in 21 of February there was signed agreement between Yanukovich, opposition and Ministers of Foreign Affairs of Poland, Germany and France.
Due this agreement:
Yanukovich must
- call back all police forces (Berkut)
- start procedure to create new government
Maydan and opposition must
- leave all captured buildings
- lay down all arms they have

Yanukovich did his part, but opposition or Maydan not. So if Western politicians who sign this agreement can get back and do everything they can due to this document that's would be awesome.

 

Thank You.
The West seems to ignore that point in bold font above.
I think that "lie" took about 12 hours to materialize.

Examine the candidacy of Senator Rand Paul, M.D. and his foreign policy proposals.
The only candidate who preaches for non intervention.

Please clarify if I am not correct in this analysis
As a Ukrainian you have the choice to be associated with the West's, Multi National Corporations & Banks and probably end up like Greece indebted to Germany
OR
you become associated with the Russian / Ukrainian Oligarchs.
That is your choice. From here, I believe the Oligarchs offer a better benefits program to the citizens.
Thank You


Moi
Remember: For your safety and security, a copy of this upload is on file with the NSA's Utah facility.

No ​

 

Because it was a peaceful protest which was crushed by jack booted thugs resulting in the Constitutional impeachment of the President who was responsible for these crimes against the Ukrainian people, the current government was duly elected in 2012 and new Presidential elections are already scheduled for May well within the constitutionally mandated 90 days following an impeachment The only "putsch" in this scenario is the illegal military invasion of sovereign Ukrainian territory and a referendum for annexation in which half of the Ukrainian citizenry will not be allowed to vote held under military occupation in overt violation of the laws and customs of war, namely the acquisition of territory through military conquest.

 

Abject nonsense, this "peace" agreement was nothing more than an unconditional amnesty for the criminals who attacked peaceful protesters on November 30th 2013.


KYIV -- Ukrainian prosecutors have ended criminal proceedings against two top officials charged with abuse of power for pushing the police chief in the capital, Kyiv, to use force against antigovernment protesters.

Kyiv prosecutors said on February 12 that investigations against Volodymyr Sivkovych, deputy secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council, and Oleksandr Popov, the head of Kyiv's city administration, were dropped as part of a recent amnesty law approved by President Viktor Yanukovych.

http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-crackdown-officials-amnestied/25261973.html

 

Peaceful protesters do not light fires !
And I don't mean burn barrels to keep warm.
YOU do know in America today, such "Peaceful Protest" is not allowed and shortly broken up by police with military like equipment.
That is why American protest don't last so long no more. And no fires were lit. Just people assembling.

What happened in Kiev was a western sponsored putsch.
Just like America sponsoring the coup against the democratically elected government of Egypt.
Support the candidacy of Senator Rand Paul, M.D. and help America stop this pathological interventionism .


Moi

No ​

 

Spare me the propaganda there was absolutely no violence prior to November 30th when the police were sent in to crack skulls. Present evidence of any violence, destruction of property, arson, etc etc prior to November 30th, I'll be waiting with baited breath.

 

Oh you. Ok I'll l show you some peace. Even 24 of November it wasn't peaceful, so about a week up to 30 of November police just hold position and don't use any real force.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JdeCDReymc
Not peaceful enough? Ok how about that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgKlNgj3EzI
Or that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1i5bVLT8b4

Also ask yourself why those peaceful guys wearing masks.


Now I`ll show you "evil warlike separatists" in Donetsk tomorrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqzSY329IYY

 

lol all of those videos were posted in December, show me one that was actually posted before November 30th as there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of when they were occurring save for the posters word on the matter.

Here is one that was actually posted on November 29th:

[video=youtube;_qrsLGnEFNs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qrsLGnEFNs[/video]

Here are the fascist separatists attempting to murder Ukrainians:

[video=youtube;cqVSDHdAYuk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cqVSDHdAYuk#t=0[/video]

 

You are just incompetent. I agree that Yanukovich is responsible for many things that happen, but there is still no any kind of his impeachment up to this day. It is a complex process with a Constitutional Court should be involved. So due to the law he is still a legal president.

 

Hopes you understand that fact you show us some really peaceful people doesn't means that all Maydan was like that. It is called logic.

Why videos i show posted in December i don`t know. There can be a tons of reasons. Many video now is blocking by youtube and reposted later by other people. Man who filmed may not be able to post it same day.

Second video you post has a lie too. Not 3 but 1 man was killed by stabbing that is true. Those scared guys mostly not locals. They was paid to be in Donetsk.
Also why you called those crowd fascists? They are locals who stand their positions. Also killed man was from Svoboda party which is true neo-fascist. And there no any proves who really killed him. But nevertheless I`m sorry for any who died during this chaos.

 

Provide a video of violence posted to youtube BEFORE November 30th.

Because they weren't from before November 30th they are Russian misinformation.

So what you're saying that not a single video posted before November 30th showing violent protesters exists on the entirety of the internet? Thought so.

So what if they aren't local? Does that give the fascists the right to attempt to murder them?

They are fascist pigs attempting to murder innocent people. Provide evidence that the murder victim was Svoboda.

And FYI two people were killed:

At least two protesters were killed late on Thursday in violent clashes between pro-Russia and pro-Ukrainian demonstrators in the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk.


http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/28e2b766-ab05-11e3-83a2-00144feab7de.html

 

He fled the capital and resigned and his Constitutional impeachment by the duly elected Ukrainian Parliament followed, if he had not fled and resigned a Constitutional court would have been implemented.

 

I should admit you have a nice tactics. I must prove everything with video evidence, you just must to scream loud. Ok I`ll give you some but I still think this is useless waste of my precious time =) (I`m not an internet warrior and need to work to fed my family). Some people just feels comfy in their world and don`t want accept anything else. Hopes you are not one of them.

Videos before 30th as you ask my friend. I don`t know why you asking me to find them for you. It wasn't hard at all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLtmg2DKaE4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB4sNBlNCm8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDYVQ2JQ4-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYDaKqL7WsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URyw-_u69hY

Happy now? There are much more you just need to looking objective information. Not the one which is along your political position.

In next post I`ll other proofs