How does the EU work?

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by spt5, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. clarisse150

    clarisse150 Member

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    That's true, in all the countries with differents cultures, people want to split up... We're only thinking about enconomy, never about culture, etc... Our dirigeants look don't understand that a country is first made of human relations!...
    That's the same problem with our monney who look like nothing... There's bank's symbols... That's ok, they didn't work hardely for made it... But we can't blame them too much, I don't know what sort of symbols you can made in a monney in order to represent Europe!... As we said, there's no identitiy... For one of the country of Europe, that's easy to find symbol, but for all the continent, I really don't know!...

    The problem is that all the ideas of the National Front are rejected by the other parties... No one want to made an alliance with this party and all the other politicans are criticizing this party who got a very bad past... - the other party of right are trying to differenciate themself as much as posible to the FN. I know some people who, as me, are in moderate right and who disagree UE - but no politicians!... This is not politicly correct, I think.
    I've ever heard about UKIP; we can easly understand that UK is fed up to pay for an union who don't give her any adventage!...
     
  2. clarisse150

    clarisse150 Member

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    Poland is really a particular case... We can't say that it's a poor country of Europe as we can't say that it's one of the rich country of the continent - this country is probably going to be one of the bigger of Europe, if they countinue to have the same economic growth...
    When I'm thinking about countries which are differents from us, I don't think to Poland first. Or I just don't think about Poland... We're not so much differents and this country had a lot of historical and cultural links with western Europe. So, I don't know where Poland shoud be row in our little reasoning :hmm:...


    De Gaulle was saying "Patriotism, when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first."
    I think that be patriot is a good thing. When you don't love the country where you're born, where you've growth, who gived you a langage, a culture, I think you should have a problem... I'm proud to say that I love my country. I love a lot of other countries and I don't hate any one - it don't consider France as a superior country, I consider it as my country, that's why I love it, just because it's logic.

    People in France nowday think as you that be patriotism is a shame - in my opinion, that one of the point who make the extrem right become more and more popular, because the people who said that they "(*)(*)(*)(*) France" or an other stupid thing and which are heard by other persons which are comming from a family where people died for France, they going to hate them very much and want to see them go away, if you understand what I'm saying...
    Patriostim is a link behind people who can come from differents religions, races, etc... That's a very good way to unify a country, but people look don't understand it and use patriotism as way to divided them... That's just stupid!

    But this people which are offended our country aren't completely guilty: they are influenced by all the athmosphere of nowday France; at school, I've sometimes the impression that they are trying to make us hate our country - we where in the extrem, before, violent, warrior... And now, it's the extrem opposite... I think that we just need to have a right middle...
    It's go with our socialist scholar program who isn't politicly oriented ( :roflol: )...: All the teachers vote in left (and some don't try to hide it...), the program have been made by people wich vote at left and you easly understand it when you see it... Shameful!
    I stop my little speach about patriotism because it's going to be very long if I continue that...
     
  3. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Warsaw will be a center of influence in European politics along with Berlin and Brussels and a top 3 European economy (surely will exceed Italy and Spain, probably the UK too).


    You are right. When I said that patriotism is obsolete I didn't say people should hate their own country. What I meant is that we are becoming a global village and the world is embracing a common culture more and more. The true process is yet to come. People who think they know what globalization is have seen nothing yet. In 30 years from now you are going to know lots of Indian and Chinese terms, surely more than you now know from countries neighboring France. I believe most of the conservatory people of Europe still can't comprehend the full magnitude of what's going to come in 30 years from now. As confirmed by the ex-president of the World Bank, over 80% of the world GDP is going to be in Asia by 2050 (China alone is going to have a middle class population of 1 billion - that's just the middle class!). The world is inevitably becoming one cultural soup. Christianity is becoming popular in Asia, Buddhism in Europe. That's just one example of a long list. Cheaper high-tech devices will reach an extra billion people by then.
     
  4. clarisse150

    clarisse150 Member

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    I think so for Poland; but, for me one of the bigger coutry in Europe, the population need to be increase, countries as Germany, Italy or France are almost twice populated - it's very important for the power of a country. Maybe Poland is going to welcome migrants? I don't know. But, surely, this country will be more and more important in the union.


    Unfortunaltely, I think you're right in that point, even if it don't delight me a lot...: It's sad to see all this cultures disappear; it already started: there was a bigger diversity, before... The word is really better with a lot of differents cultures than with only one!
    We see that foreing cultures coming from the powerful countries have more and more influence in the more tiny countries... In France, the americanization of the culture is really an obvious fact! - but I'm not sure that it's going to be the same for China or India in Europe, because the cultures are really extremely differents.... It's hard to adopt parts of a cultures that you don't really understand. Even if, as you said, Buddihism for exemple is a little arrived in Europe, it still consern a very little part of the population.
    Ah... No, no; don't make me learn Chinese or Indian! - I am already not made to speak English. What a disaster... :laughing:
    And, we don't know if the thing are going to continue like that. Maybe there will be conflicts or other thing like that that we are unable to plan!...
     
  5. Aldric

    Aldric New Member

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    Increasing trade doesn't mean that people have to loose their national culture value to the kind of global soup you are suggesting.
    In fact, the more people feel they are being imposed a cultural globalization soup, the more they will be keen on being reactionary and keen on getting back their traditional values.
    In India for example the GDP is developing fast, but people are retaining their traditional values/religions ect. ..

    China isn't a traditionally Christian, and Buddhism will never pierce in Europe because it's not the same civilization area. Even looking that way. A Chinese Christian will still be first a Chinese, and won't melt into a world community.
    By the way. Globalisation as you meant it is more a "americanisation". People don't live like chinese. They mostly tend to copy trends from the US, as they are feed by the american controlled medias.
    I don't think the Chinese has the cultural imperialism spirit. It's just business for them, they don't seek to impose values.

    Merging all cultures to make trade easier and larger won't run on the long run and if it's does as Clarisse said. It will be a terrible loss for humanity. We need to retain the cultural diversity just like we need to retain biodiversity.
     
  6. clarisse150

    clarisse150 Member

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    Hi, Aldric!
    ça faisait vraiment longtemps qu'on ne s'était pas croisé sur le forum X)!
     
  7. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    It's not something that's being imposed, it's the natural tendency of all the people and it's not as linked to trade as it is to technology. Nobody is taking anything from anyone, it will just happen naturally, not imposed by any politicians but by people's trends. This is just the beginning of a process that will last hundreds of years. You will not live long enough to see its results so no need to worry anyway. By the end of our lives Europe will still look the same way it did when you were born.

    Religion was actually just one poor example. There's many other things to consider.

    It may be for now, only trendwise, but it's money that makes the difference and the Chinese along with other Asian countries will soon have all the money.

    Imposing values to the rest of the world is something that has been tried before and did not work. The British Empire i. e. for a long time used to think that their values are a model and it's a moral duty to transfer them to the rest of the world, which did not work and could not have.

    Patriotism is where this discussion started but maybe you mix culture and country too much? Culture and values are far from being the same thing as the country they find themselves in. Cultures do merge and separate naturally over time but don't worry, it happens over hundreds if not thousands of years. All I wanted to say is that patriotism is going to work in a radically different way than it did before in the next decades.
     
  8. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    As the GDP per capita and the standards of living increase, people naturally tend to have more children. There will be no impressive numbers of immigrants. Just more Polish. Space is not a problem for them. We already saw that happen in Germany. German... the most spoken language in Europe, numerically.

    I think there's no need to worry because languages and cultures don't dissapear that easily and certainly not overnight.
     
  9. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Norway is not in the EU, nor in the EZ and look at their debt... Despite all their oil they have the same debt as Poland even though their population is 3 times smaller than that of Poland. Isn't that weird?
     
  10. clarisse150

    clarisse150 Member

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    I don't think so. Speaking about Germany, they got an excellent standar of life, and, there's 1,2 child by women in this country - that's really not enought, it must be susperior to 2,1 for assure the replacement of the population - that's why Germany is less and less populed, unfortunatly...!
    And, when you see the poorest countries in Africa, where there's really a bad standar of life, they made more children. It's come from people's mentality: in the poorest countries, there's a lot of epidemics, famines, etc... And so, the childrens die a lot - when one born, you're unfortunalty not sure that he will arrive to the adultwood - and so, you need to have more childrens for be sure that some of them will stay alive when you'll be an old person...
    In our rich countries, we know they will not to die young, so, one or too, it's enough for a lot of westerners.
    As people in Poland alrealy don't made a lot of Childrens, I think that if they want to increase, they have no choice except welcome migrants.

    All the langage or the cultures give you a way to see the world, world, can make you thinking about your own society and make it improve....
    In my opinion, it's really a disaster to see all this culture dispear.
    How boring will be the world with only one culture... It's truely sad! I really hope it will never happen.
     
  11. clarisse150

    clarisse150 Member

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    Yes, that's why I said "the majority". Not all the countries wich aren't in UE.
    As exemple, Switzerland is in an excellent situation.
     
  12. Natural Evidence

    Natural Evidence Member Past Donor

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    EU had started from economic union. Now it reached very great ideal by the integrated currency. The next ideal is the integrated governmential budget. EU always expects integration. I also expect EU will reach the next human ideal.
     
  13. clarisse150

    clarisse150 Member

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    It was the project at the beginning... The problem is that this nice theory is impossible to do in pratice: each country of Europe is thinking about his own interest; then, we can't blame them for that! It's normal if Germans don't want to pay for Greeks... They don't earn anything to do that!
    If countries have no interest to involve them in the UE, they will not to do it...

    Nowday, the ideal of an united Europe look really unrealistic...!
     
  14. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    It is reliant on an unholy alliance of the left (bogusly thinking it can lead to liberal utopia) and right (as they get scared rotten over their worldwide importance). The EU works by convincing the desperate to support the utterly ridiculous
     
  15. thebacon

    thebacon New Member

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    I'll tell you exactly how the European Union works. The basics of it are pretty simple. There is very small amount of people that control the lives of just over 500.million people. It's basically a reincarnation of the USSR. The way that it works is that if someone disagrees with what the EU proposes and votes no, they get told they are wrong. They Government of the country that disagrees gets threatened, in the end what happens is they force the law through by ignoring public opinions and votes. Or at least this was the case for countries such as: France, The Netherlands and Ireland. Basically in the long run the plan is to make sure that every country in the EU is under total control. They will take away all national laws and legislation from the countries that are part of it. The problem is that there is not one law that suits all countries and cultures and by enforcing your views on other countries without giving them a chance to say no. You very quickly open the door to their last resort which is violence. You only need to look at the tragedies happening in Greece to see what I'm talking about.

    So to sum up the EU works by taking control of independent countries Governments and then imposing their own rules on that country.
     
  16. Natural Evidence

    Natural Evidence Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, I hope EU will govern well for their citizens.
     
  17. thebacon

    thebacon New Member

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    The EU as it is now, under it's current leader ship, with it's current ideals, can not and will not do what is best for each individual country. One rule CAN NOT suit a region that is so culturally diverse.
     
  18. clarisse150

    clarisse150 Member

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    I hope that to!
    But I think it will need a lot of time :hmm:
     
  19. thebacon

    thebacon New Member

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    Time is of the essence here my dear. The sooner the EU is forced to rewrite European legislation the better. The only way to do that is to stand up and vote for people who oppose complete European dominance. Vote for the parties that encourage nationalised government in each and every country separately. That's the only way, if you don't vote for change now you might not a get a chance to vote legitimately again.
     
  20. munter

    munter New Member

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    It takes from the rich countries and gives to the poor - just like the Liberal idealists
     
  21. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    It doesn't , bail out money do not go in any country .
     
  22. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Uncle Ferd says...

    ... "Dat's just it - it don't....
    :confusion:
    ... it's so loaded up with debt...

    ... it gonna fall apart...

    ... like the Soviet Union did.
    :wink:
    ... History has a way of repeating itself."
    :cool:
     
  23. munter

    munter New Member

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    And why would EU be any better than many individual states.

    Bigger is not necessarily better, right?
     
  24. clarisse150

    clarisse150 Member

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    UE is already bigger than it should be!
    More numerous the countries are, more differences there will be; and this is this difference who creat all our problem in UE...
    UE should get smaller and more organized; add new countries in the union is a mistake and will worsen the situation!
     
  25. Aldric

    Aldric New Member

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    It will help showing up its inefficiency and breaking it appart. The sooner the better. Cause the euro project and especially the european currency wont stand like this.
     

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