Is this really what the left wants?

That's the drawdown of internet discussion boards. I can only judge by what I see you post.

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Who the hell brought up the rich? Are you even paying attention to the discussion?

 

if the Gov did not own it, you can bet someone would buy it up... you think they would let you "use" it for free... try to keep up...

 

That was the feds, not the political left.

 

My thoughts on Bundy is that he is breaking the law and should be fined and prosecuted. He reminds me of squatters that move in without buying the property. Fox news will support any movement that will make the present administration look like they are at fault even if a person like Bundy is trying to break the law. They are lucky that there was not a lot of people shot and killed out there acting like they were going to scare the people representing the law. All it takes is one crazy wannabe soldier (militia) to fire the first shot and a lot of people could end up dead. Bundy is wrong and needs to pay his fees that he owes and that is it. The federal government should not allow him to get away with this, because that will open the gates for many others to do the same.

This reminds me of the Spanish Land Grants in New Mexico where the Spanish people, the legal owners of the grants were pushed out by white cattle ranches. Now after fighting it in the courts some Spanish people are getting compensated because they got pushed out of their land that was given to them by Spain.

 

Where do you think the happy middle ground regarding free speech is located? When it comes to guns I don't care what you do until the point where you initiate force against others (ie: shoot people), or make clear your imminent intent to do so (ie: point a gun at someone). Before that point you could be buying full auto M4s, RPGs, or nuclear weapons from some dodgy back street dealer. No ID, no background check, no serial numbers on the guns, no registration, no license. That's not my concern.

 

According to my arbitrary decisions.

 

Nuclear weapons in the hands of civilians? Now that's just silly.

 

I'm a leftist, I want more rights, not less. That means keeping the Second Amendment. And the last thing I want is a militarized police force tromping around over petty, non-violent offenses. Actually, I don't want a militarized police force at all. I've yet to meet a leftist who does.

 

They wouldn't, why would they. Occupy doesn't care about ranchers, if they did why aren't they in Texas defending the ranchers down there who are losing their ranchers for the GOP's favorite shovel ready pipeline?

 

dude, the federal government only owns that 36square miles called DC, a few bases, and that's all they own. better go read up on what the gov actually owns. Those lands belong to us, not them and Bundy has my permission to graze his cattle there.

 

I suspect that the actions in Texas will be dealt with shortly, especially since the Bundy affair

 

Well stick around dear Bethany. This place is full of leftists clamoring for militarized police forces to kill their enemies. Word is the democratic underground is frothing also.
Amazing how the thought processes shift in just a few short years.
Personally when young I was a flag flying patriotic young fellow that thought the country and it's armies could do no wrong.
I know different now. I will NEVER have that blind attitude again.
What disturbs me is the left used to have that attitude but are currently deaf and blind. Even worse if ever we see another conservative administration I have no doubt they will be miraculously cured.

We should all welcome change as we grow. We should not change back and forth depending on who's sitting in the WH.
I appreciate the fact you stand by your convictions. Don't change that.

 

The problem is the real left has no power in this country. We have no voice in our current money-controlled political system and very little in the media (we'd have virtually none if it weren't for the internet). Also decades of authoritarian rightwing propaganda and sometimes outright oppression, imprisonment, and assassination are working against us.

And too many Americans see politics as a sport and not a moral reflection of our culture. Too many Democrats who would otherwise be Progressive are fooled into thinking, "Oh, Blue Team won, therefore all is well, even though we're murdering countless people in other countries and losing all our rights here at home."

 

I wouldn't support the feds against ranchers. I really don't know what your problem is.

 

That's totally odd, you quoted my problem that you couldn't see.


Originally Posted by EggKiller
This place is full of leftists clamoring for militarized police forces to kill their enemies.

 

Rosa Parks should have been severely punished for breaking the law!!1111

 

What is the litmus test to determine "going a bit over the top"?

 

SWAT raids for lawn citations?

 

So anything beneath that is not going a bit over the top?

 

I am not going to play games.

What is your point?

 

You speak as though there are not Right-wing extremes or extremists.

The rancher should have obeyed the damned law. We KNOW that he broke the law and even had time to handle this in many other ways. Heck, in a time where people are getting their assess blown away by cops for little or nothing, he's lucky his ass isn't dead or in jail right now. Seriously, he should have done what was legal and right, in that order. Others obey the law, why couldn't he?!

In a nation where people practically worship guns and place laws concerning those nearly up there with beliefs generated from the Bible... I don't blame ANY official for exercising extreme caution.

Remember what I said about guns?! Why hell wouldn't the people enforcing the law be 'ready'?

Probably to apply some control over a situation which could likely end up being dangerous.

Why the hell does a civilian need access to military grade weapons?

If YOU were a cop, you'd want to get back home to your wife/kids too.

 

How much offensive force do you feel you need?

 

Bundy was grazing on property that wasn't his. The only difference is that instead of not paying his neighbor for use of his land he was not paying the government for use of their land. Now if you want to discuss why the Feds keep taking up so much land to begin with that is an entirely different topic. The issue though is that he didn't pay for usage of land that was not his. Did the Feds overreact initially, probably but he went 20 years without paying before they finally came to collect. Whether out of bureaucracy or laziness they sure took their time.

 

What was that cattleman's justification for not complying with the law?

Remember, we're comparing a woman taking an available seat on a bus, with a potentially violent guy infringing upon other people's property.

 

If your speech (no matter how coded) results in threats or violence against people, you go to prison.

At that point it is too late.