UKIP

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Reiver, May 3, 2014.

  1. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Messages:
    1,965
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No it's not.
    Same again

    What's wrong with that?

    No it's not. The monarchy doesn't actually have any real power and had reduced since the 1640's so at the most this is a ceremonial title.
    As for the church; so what they can't force you to be a Christian.

    I hope not judging from what I've seen of him and unlike him I have actually studied economics instead of just subscribing to the economist
    I suggest that you go get your money back.
     
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is the left wing narrative of anyone that does not toe the progressive line, both in the UK and here in the US.

    UK, EU, and US Governments Fund Group Pushing Anti-UKIP Propaganda

     
  3. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Its all about right wing dishonesty. Even then they're not very good at it: e.g. the UKIP councillor gave it away when he said "Some individuals who voted for BNP in desperation, because there was no other alternate where we didn't stand, have come over to us now".
     
  4. Sab

    Sab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Reply to what? Your usual 'racist racist racist' posturing?
     
  5. Sab

    Sab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    So you have no idea whatsoever what fascism entails. Economic liberalism has nothing whatsoever to do with fascism. Fascism invlves corporatavism which I suggest you look up.

    Opposition to the EHCR is hardly Fascism either. Calling US republicans' fascist' is the most abusrd childish posturing and lastly you call being pro monarchy 'Fascist'

    Clearly you have no degree in politics at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's probably right. Some people who voted for the neo Fascist BNP have gone to the Right-Populist ukip.
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To call UKIP 'Economic liberals' would of course be ludicrous. Thatcherism has always been about authoritarianism, merely using 'free market economics' to convince Middle England that they are voting for something more than just oik
     
  7. Sab

    Sab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Thatcherism was about freeing markets which is the foundation of economic liberalism.Fascism bears no relationship to it.

    Now fascism DOES include stopping Freedom of speech..something you on the left are rather keen on.
     
  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is particularly gullible. 'Free markets' are neither achievable or desirable. 'Free market economics' mind you is used as the means to coerce right wing 'demand'. For Britain that involved child poverty going through the roof, whilst the Tories fed at the corporate trough. UKIP adopt Thatcherite policies. That makes them right wing authoritarian. To even compare them with the long dead liberals is quite silly
     
  9. Sab

    Sab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    It is YOUR position that free markets are no desirable. Obviously it is impossible to acheive a completely free market but to move twoards Greater market freedom is certain;y desirable from MY point of view ( I see that you cannot accept that there is a POV issue here)
     
  10. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, its the position of anybody that knows economics. Whilst they cannot exist, they're certainly not desirable. For example, to eliminate issues of market power, we'd need perfect competition. Enjoy your good homogeneity chum!

    Free market economics is nothing more than right wing authoritarianism. This makes a mockery of your 'economic liberalism' comment and strengthens mutmekep's argument
     
  11. Sab

    Sab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    SO 'anyone who knows' inlcudes you but not Milton Freidman. I see.

    Freemarket economics is certainly NOT authoritarianism. Merely asserting it proves nothing
     
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Friedman doesn't support free markets. He supports free market economics. That of course also involved links with Chilean dictatorship. You do like to shoot yourself in the foot don't you?
     
  13. Sab

    Sab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    'links with the chilean dictatorship'

    And?
    How do I shoot myself in the foot? You Socilists have 'links' to the worlds nastiest regimes.
     
  14. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep, we have him resource funded through right wing authoritarianism. I'm sure that you can see your "whoops" moment. Free market economics isn't about free markets. There is no such thing as free markets. Its about manipulating further coercion. With Thatcherism the success was spectacular: huge profiteering (which can only exist with coercion) at the expense of most (but particularly the poor)
     
  15. smevins

    smevins New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,539
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    My position, for whatever it is worth, is that the UK is too small for anything close to resembling a free market compared to larger states. Positioning London as a banking center, which it certainly has been forever, does not change IMO that the UK lacks the labor and the resources to run a free market marathon with China, Russia and the United States, which looks like what the remainder of the century is going to be.
     
  16. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This doesn't make sense. The size of the state is irrelevant to the free market. It can't exist, simple as
     
  17. Sab

    Sab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    This is drivel. Socialism has empoverished everythibg it touches. SO Pinnochet's economic refirms were sensible. SO what it doesn;t excuse his social policies whereas you socialist ignore the fould abuses of Cuba, Venezuala etc etc which you have 'links to'
     
  18. smevins

    smevins New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,539
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We live in a world of normative economics. Public/merit goods simply are constrained by free markets. Sure a free market can exist, but social expectations of government services and goods, won't allow it to remain that way for more than a brief period of time. Larger economies provide more opportunities for people to move about the economic ladders without needing the government's involvement, and can remain "free" longer (not that any free markets really exist).
     
  19. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How easily you support right wing killers. Wowsers!

    - - - Updated - - -

    This doesn't make sense either. Free markets DON'T EXIST. I've put it in capitals to hopefully explain the obvious.

    Your reference to larger economies made no sense. You should be referring to economies of scale or something of that ilk
     
  20. smevins

    smevins New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,539
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, let me put in in plainer English for you--small economies reach the tipping point where people who do without break the politicians faster than do large economies. The politics matter more than the economics.
     
  21. Sab

    Sab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I don;t support ANY right wing killers. Pinnochet should have been done for Murder. Nothing wrong with his economics though. You are so dishonest that you won't address the evil of those who support socialism worldwide
     
  22. tamora

    tamora New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    764
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    0


    You need to try real arguments because the smears aren't working. I can see it's difficult for you though, when politicians opposing UKIP have no answers to them, you have no one to give you a lead.

     
  23. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,323
    Likes Received:
    458
    Trophy Points:
    83
    The first cross-party campaign to condemn Nigel Farage's party as racist is to be launched this week amid fresh polls showing Ukip may come first across England in the European elections in May. The campaign is led by the former Labour immigration minister Barbara Roche, who claimed: "Ukip's campaign needs to be exposed for what it is, a racist campaign. The party is practising what is in effect a form of 'Euracism'. They are deploying the same language and tactics used by openly racist parties like the BNP, but instead of targeting migrants from Africa and Asia they are targeting migrants from within the EU."

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/28/ukip-european-election-accused-of-racism

    [​IMG]
    Ukip's now infamous poster of an unemployed British builder is actually a picture of a foreign worker, it has been revealed. Social media users have identified the man in the Ukip poster as Irish actor Dave O'Rourke. O'Rourke's Star Now profile lists him as "originally from Dublin, living in the UK 10 years".
     
  24. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    By referring to Friedman you proved my point: 'free market economics' is really about right wing authoritarianism. Thank you very much

    - - - Updated - - -

    Smear? This isn't about a coalition group with the odd silly blighter. This is about English nationalism, an inherently bigoted approach twinned with right wing economics. Given right wing economics gave us the financial crisis, I do have to ask the English: What on earth are you thinking?
     
  25. Sab

    Sab Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ah you are just another Highlander style anglophobic bigot.
     

Share This Page