Islam only scares the insecure

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by MegadethFan, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    It should not matter what genes say. Technically from your belief they are all the same as A&E are the ancestors to all.
    And if it once was a nations land 2000 yrs ago, gives NO one any RIGHT to the same land 2000 yrs later.

    Just another bible initiated war/conflict. Drop all religions, 80% of the wars/terrorism goes away. IMO.
     
  2. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Democracy and the rule of law, the only spot in the region that has them. Interesting that you as a Muslim don't value these things.

    What about the Jewish 'right of return' to Muslim countries they were kicked out of?
     
  3. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, the real voice of 'Truth and Reality'. Gotta love religions.

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    As long as you have no problem with Natives of the Americas to kick the inhabitant out, then fine. 2000 yr absence means nothing. Or you being a hypocrite and won't let the natives have their Americas back?
     
  4. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Actually, the Zionist terrorist groups - the first terrorist groups of conflict which would go on to form the IDF, by the way (how's that for "state terrorism") - didn't discriminate between British and Palestinians and I can list a dozen massacres perpetuated against the Palestinians if you'd like.

    However I like how you justify terrorism. Are you also aware those terrorist groups asked the Nazis to help them fight the British? Even invited them to Palestine.

    As to my facts being wrong... Care to elaborate? Or would you prefer to selectively responding to my post some more?

    And allow me to repeat myself... There is no conclusive evidence that Ashkenazim originated from the Near East. There's been conflicting results which I'd have to guess is due to politics. You should be more specific next time rather than saying things like "these Jews".
     
  5. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    So why don't you give your house to an Indian, or are you a hypocrite? Want to stop dodging my question about Jewish 'right of return'? How about Christian right of return for those kicked out by these violent, intolerant creeps?

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    Cite?

    For the record, I don't support any terrorism.
     
  6. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    lmao.... you realize for the past 7 decades, this great little democracy has killed thousands of innocent people, imposed a crippling blockade on Gaza, provoked wars with all of its neighbours, occupied land of all of its neighbours, stolen land, arrested children, prevents hundreds of thousands of refugees from returning home, giving African refugees birth control without consent, threatened dozens of countries, illegally acquired nuclear weapons, supported the Apartheid regime in South Africa and almost arming them with nuclear weapons, violated sovereignty of its neighbours on a nearly daily basis, broken countless international laws and committed various war crimes *catches breathe*

    Meanwhile, "Israel" has benefited from unconditional US support, exploiting Holocaust guilt, Zionist influence in US politics and media, and billions of American taxpayers money despite killing more Americans than Palestinians have.

    So yeah, "Israel" might be in better shape than Palestine. I wonder why that is? :roll:

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    Yeah. The UN gave the majority of the land to a minority of the population.
     
  7. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Rule of law.... lol...

    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...olations-of-u-n-security-council-resolutions/
    http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/0F38408DAC179AFB85257B10006D19B2

    Democracy? What democracy arrests thousands of people in administrative detention? What democracy violates international laws as if they don't apply to them?

    Firstly, "Israel" was begging them to leave. They tried everything they could to get Jews to leave Muslim countries - which they lived nicely in before the Palestinian-Israel conflict of course. Iraq tried to prevent any Jews from leaving, and the Zionist regime responded by committing false-flag operations to "persuade" Jews to leave.

    Secondly, the Zionist exodus from Muslim countries - Jews who didn't support Zionism or "Israel" were free to stay, for obvious reasons - was a response to the displacement of nearly a million Palestinians during the '48 war. The exodus began following 1948, when "Israel" refused Palestinians the right to return.

    Thirdly, none of these countries has a policy refusing their right to return. So this typical Zionist deflection is moot.
     
  8. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Neither Christians or Jews are refused the right of return to Muslim countries....

    I don't have enough time to find everything, but I'll give you wiki links and leave you to the rest of the research if you're really interested...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Early_career
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Contact_with_Nazi_Germany
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avraham_Stern#Lehi
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement#Hanotea
    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html
     
  9. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Using their own logic, Palestinians should have the right of return without compromise too, since they lived on the land for a centuries themselves.

    Also... Modern Zionism isn't so much religious as it is secular, actually. Herzl wouldn't reference the Bible or Torah to support establishing a Jewish state. The conflict is very nationalistic in nature, it's not so much a three-way between Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

    There is nothing Kosher about "Israel".
     
  10. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Why are Christians leaving Iraq and Syria? You seriously think Jews could immigrate to Iran?
     
  11. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Don't tell me, more UN resolutions condemning Israel for shooting back at the genocidal maniacs they're surrounded by?

    Yes, a democracy. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/05/Israel_Is_a_Democracy

    Since you don't like Israel, what Muslim nation should the US be emulating?
    LOL, it's Israels fault Jews were driven out of Muslim nations, huh? I have a Jewish client who left Iran that you need to talk to.

    Nonsense, from Wikipedia:

    "The Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries or Jewish exodus from Arab countries (Hebrew: יציאת יהודים ממדינות ערב‎, Yetziat yehudim mi-medinot Arav; Arabic: هجرة اليهود من الدول العربية والإسلامية‎ hijrat al-yahūd min ad-duwal al-ʻArabīyah wal-Islāmīyah) was the departure, flight,[1] migration and expulsion of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Muslim countries, mainly from 1948 until the early 1970s.

    Although estimates vary, about 800,000 Jews lived in Arab countries in 1948, of which just under two-thirds lived in the colonial-controlled Maghreb region, 15-20% in the Kingdom of Iraq, approximately 10% in the Kingdom of Egypt and approximately 7% in the Kingdom of Yemen. A further 200,000 lived in Pahlavi Iran and the Republic of Turkey. Today around 6,500 Jews live in Arab countries and around 30,000 in Iran and Turkey.

    The reasons for the exodus included push factors, such as persecution, antisemitism, political instability, poverty and expulsion."

    Jew-hate is inherent to Islam, kind of like Naziism.

    Why are Christians leaving Iraq and Syria today? Could it be persecution and death from your 'tolerant' co-religionists? Try your Muslim propaganda elsewhere.
     
  12. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like nothing compared to the Muslim-Nazi connection:

    http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/07/19/the-muslim-nazi-connection/

    Telling photos of your brethren giving the fascist salute.....
     
  13. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Did you bother reading any of them? Guess not. By the way, collective punishment is a violation of international law.

    Nah, you're right... poor "Israel" can't violate UN resolutions and international law without being condemned. Probably because everybody is anti-semetic. Obviously.

    Wait... since you ask that question, do you think the United States is emulating "Israel"?

    The answer is none. Actually, I'd like to see the United States emulate some of the dictators it supports. That'd just be so fitting, don't you think?

    Not all of it, but where was the anti-Jewish sentiment before 1948? Why, prior to the establishment of "Israel", Jews lived in peace in the Middle East. Is there not a connection? Can you tell me that with a straight face?

    Why don't you speak with the tens of thousands of Iranian Jews who didn't leave Iran? Because it'll challenge the ideas you get fed by the media. It was a rhetorical question, don't worry.

    When did the exodus of Palestinians occur?

    the sentence goes on...

    ...together with pull factors, such as the desire to fulfill Zionist yearnings or find a better economic status and secured home in Europe or the Americas.

    I assume you left that out by accident and not to try and deceive people.:wink:

    Baseless comments. Yay.

    loooool I wonder why? Yeah, it must be because of Muslim persecution. There is no other explanation for it. Because as we all know, not a single Muslim has left either of those countries today. Just Christians.

    Oh my God... this is too funny :roflol:

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    I don't know what this has to do with that post, but...

    Why do you think Christians are leaving Iraq and Syria today?

    And yes, they could. There are Jews in Iran, you know?
     
  14. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    I did, and accurately described it already.

    So tell your Muslim brethren to stop persecuting Jews and Christians.

    Quite a few Muslims are. Funny Muslim nations sign the UN charter on rights and honor them like pigeons honor statues. I have little use for the UN personally, and think that building on the East River would make an excellent space for a parking lot.
    Thank you for your honesty. I'm not aware of one Muslim nation with freedom of religion as we know it in the Judeo/Christian West. Makes you wonder what they're afraid of.

    Here, starting with the 'prophet', http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

    Have you?

    I spoke to a real live emigre from Iran, which is probably one more than you have. His relatives still there had their commercial property confiscated by the government solely because of their race. He was the persecution was terrible.

    I acknowledge your point about this, do you acknowledge mine about persecution?


    About as funny as the holocaust. http://www.raymondibrahim.com/musli...slim-persecution-of-christians-december-2013/

    Is this Muslim persecution in the dozen or so countries listed because of Israel?

    See my link immediately above.

    A LOT less than used to be there. Why is that?
     
  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    And has Bush Been declared a war criminal?
     
  16. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Okay, I'm sorry but your clearly unbiased website has a few false statements.

    The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a very influential Muslim leader at the time, almost equivalent to the Pope for Catholic’s.

    First, al-Husseini... the only people who still talk about this guy are Zionists. No Palestinians talk about this guy. He was appointed by the British and that was only because one of the other candidates dropped out, making him eligible to make his family happy or something. Why they didn't replace him after, I will never know. But to blame the Holocaust on him and try to link it to Palestinians is desperation at best. So this idea that al-Husseini was a Pope of Muslims, it's not true. Yeah, he had some influence, but he should have never been Grand Mufti to begin with.

    Indeed, a popular WWII song was heard in the Middle East featuring words: Bissama Allah, oria alard Hitler – in heaven Allah, on earth Hitler.

    In heaven Allah, on Earth Hitler... Really? You honestly believe Muslims equated Hitler with Allah SWT? Astaghfirallah... I don't know what else to say.

    In October 1933, pro-Axis Young Egypt Party was founded. Styling itself of its German ideal, the new party built a storm-trooper unit, marching with torches under the slogan “One folk, One party, One Leader.” Among the members was the young Gamal Abdel Nasser.

    Nasser was never a member of the Young Egypt Society. He took part in a protest, that was it. I like how they say "young Nasser" was a member of the Young Egypt party though...

    Nasser’s brother, Nassiri, was the translator of Hitler’s Mein Kampf into Arabic, describing the Fascist despot in glowing terms.

    Who is Nassiri Nasser? His two brothers were Izz al-Arab and al-Leithi. I searched for 10 minutes and found nothing on this brother, Nassiri. Did they just make him up?

    I stopped reading after failing to find any information on Nasser's apparently long-lost brother.


    To summarize, I provided you with Wikipedia links. While not perfect, they at least have some citations/references and are about as unbiased as you can get without looking at legitimate scholarly sources. You counter with a clearly anti-Islamic website, attributing the entire Holocaust to Palestinians, and just straight-up lying.

    So, I'll give you some advice my friend. The thing about anti-Islamic websites is that they aren't meant to be used to defend your points. These websites are meant to be privately, to further your own ignorance since they lack facts, sources, knowledge, or credibility among most people who do not share your views. That's why they are easily debunked.
     
  17. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    I guarantee you didn't.

    So arrogant lol... Totally missed my point, but whatever.

    And unlike some people, I don't try justifying persecution of other people.

    But of course. So in other words, you don't support terrorism unless it is done by "Israel"? That's what I'm getting from your posts.

    I think we're done here. You literally have nothing to respond to.

    Yawn.... You guys always use the exact same material. It's kind of boring, one reason I don't go on here as much.

    So... I won't repeat myself for the umpteenth time. I'll summarize it, and leave others who read this to look into it themselves. The Jewish tribes of Medina provided refuge to the Muslims who were being persecuted in Mecca in return for Muhammad (pbuh) making peace between the tribes. Converting to Islam was never a precondition for peace. After all, there is no compulsion in religion. So what happened? Well, the Meccans attacked Medina. And the Jewish tribes, in different battles, aided the Meccans against the Muslims. As a result, yeah, the Muslims expelled them. I don't get how that's a bad thing. As for the 600 killed, they were punished with rules of the Torah, by a mediator that they appointed themselves and agreed upon. So, I fail to see how Islam promotes anti-Jewish sentiments.

    I most likely have spoken to more Middle Eastern Jews who still live in their respective countries than you have.

    Then why are there still thousands of Jews there? Doesn't add up.

    I never said there wasn't persecution.

    Is this Muslim persecution in the dozen or so countries listed because of Israel?



    See my link immediately above.



    A LOT less than used to be there. Why is that?[/QUOTE]

    You can't be this obtuse......
     
  18. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    So were those photos photo-shopped or something? Who is blaming the entire holocaust on Muslims? I am blaming today's persecution on your religion, it is like an ongoing worldwide kristallnacht against Christians. And knock off the ad hominem 'hate-site' stuff and deal with facts I've posted today, like the many instances of Muslim violence against Christian. I notice you ignore that. Somewhere you denied Muslim Jew-hate, here's a Muslim version of Sesame Street where little kids are brainwashed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhbHVEGnYD8
     
  19. junobet

    junobet New Member

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    Words can’t describe how this makes me wanna vomit! Do you even think about the crap you are writing here? Tell you what: had you said that in Germany the Jewish Council would call you a bloody anti-semite, and I can’t say I would not agree with them.

    If you wanna do a nonsensical body-count between religions, I’m sorry to say it’s our Western Christian hands that are still the bloodiest.
    Remember Mt 7:3:
    "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

    So I suggest you stop whining like a schoolyard-bully who got a scratch and start apologizing for the murders your nation commits on a daily basis while my nation - whose very Christian elder generation actually committed the Kristallnacht - stands by, says nothing and sells tanks to Saudi Arabia to subdue unwelcome demonstrations with!
     
  20. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    You have problems with the word hypocrite? I'm not the one claiming a group of people have any claim at all to any land they left/got kicked out of 2000 yrs ago. You seem to think a group of people get to keep a plot of land forever and ever.
    What 'right of return'?
     
  21. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Actually, the group called palestinians have live there longer than this group called jewish.
     
  22. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    I'm an Atheist ALL religions have to go they are all moronic, Islam just adds violence openly into the mix and it doesn't even try to pretend to be nice.
     
  23. junobet

    junobet New Member

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    I think what OJ wanted to point you too is the fact that the Zionist movement was started by an atheist (Theodor Herzl). The conflict in the middle east is in essence not religious. There are Palestinian Jews, Muslims and Christians.
     
  24. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    I'm done with you, I have nothing more to say and it's just wasting my time now. I've said what I needed to say.

    You've posted very little facts, my friend. And calling out your hate sites being hate sites is no fallacy. It'd be like using a Nazi source to say Judaism is evil. Same thing, same logic behind using anti-Islamic websites to learn about Islam. MEMRI was the last straw.

    Khalas.
     
  25. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Yes. It's a mixture of nationalism and religion but I'd personally argue it began more nationalistic than religious, since the leading figures of Zionism weren't Jewish by faith.

    The Jews that lived there with the Palestinians for centuries caused no problem. There was very little anti-Jewish sentiment before the middle 1900's in the entire middle east and North Africa. It can't be a coincidence. The three faiths got along with each other. Such a shame...

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    I know I'm wasting my time, but just for fun...

    http://quran.com
     

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