http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/vietnam-mayor-calls-end-anti-china-protests-23761047 i am wondering if this is china just preparing for war with Vietnam, as there getting there population out. so they wont become hostages to any counter.
china not only needs oil but coal, so this would be the likely take over of these mines close to china's border, they dont have to occupy all of Vietnam
Vietnam is the best one for them to be bullying, which makes this all very ominous since it doesn't seem completely out of the question that they would do something. It is probably limited to the oil rig, though.
Holy guru, if your children are abused and beaten up by school bullies, and the teachers are turning a blind eye to the whole matter because the bullies are relatives of the school principal, are you going to sit idle as though your children’s plight is none of your concern? Once you have taken the right action to transfer your children out to another school, a weird guy starts spreading rumours that you are going to burn down the school and kill all the teachers. How would you feel then? Feeling proud? Feeling like a hero? Take another analogy, if your family members are taken hostage by a psycho, won't you care for their safety? More than 20 people have died and over 100 were injured in the Vietnamese riots. The arson, looting and killing committed by the Vietnamese mobs are no joke. Given such crimes to humanity, who is more likely to start a war? You need a reality check. As you seem to be prejudiced or ignorant about the whole affair, let me humour and enlighten you with the following "poem" of mine: Vietnam, Vietnam, burning bright In the middle of the night, What ruthless heart or hand Could trigger such deadly violence in thy land? What clowns and simpletons play with fire, And turn thy land into a funeral pyre? What evil heart or mind Could leave such a bloody mess behind? What instigation, and by whose order, Could create such lawlessness and disorder? And when thy sinful heart begins to beat, What burning fire and what searing heat? What the hammer? What the sickle? What makes thy brainless mind so fickle? What irrational thinking Could mislead thee into arson, looting and killing? When thy barbaric people spread fears and terrors, It's time to rectify thine errors. Is thine ungrateful heart taken over by greed That causes thy land to bleed? Vietnam, Vietnam, burning bright In the middle of the night, What ruthless heart or hand Could trigger such deadly violence in thy land? The Tiger http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-tiger/ The Tyger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyger Worst crisis in decades: Vietnam riots over Chinese drilling spread, killing more than 20 http://rt.com/news/159064-vietnam-factory-killed-rioters/
1. Cute crow, whether you are black or filled with rainbow colours, you still seem to be a harbinger of bad news. The memories of men, especially Americans, are short. How can Vietnam which, according to the late US President Gerald R. Ford in an interview with NEWSWEEK, literally kicked out and beaten the US, be "the best one for them (China) to be bullying"? You are talking with your head in the clouds. Let's go through the time tunnel to "The Last Days of Saigon" on April 30, 1975 -- "a low moment in the American Century, a painful reminder of the limits of power". It is an ironical twist in history a Chinese-made North Vietnamese tank crashed through the gates of the presidential palace about an hour after the last helicopter pulled off the US embassy roof. A few years later, we found Vietnam turning its guns round towards China. It shows Vietnam’s ingratitude, untrustworthiness and skill in playing one power against another. Surprisingly, there are enough idiots in the world for the Vietnamese to manipulate against each other. For instance, many times in history, they had used the Chinese to help them drive out the British, French, Japanese and Americans. They had used the French to eradicate Chinese influence in Indo-China. Now they seem to “flirt” with their former bitter enemy, the US, to counter China. It won't be surprising that an American-made Vietnamese tank would try to crash through the Sino-Vietnamese border in the future. It won't be surprising too that some decades later, they will seek Chinese help to drive out the Americans again. 2. Following are excerpts from the article headlined "The Last Days Of Saigon" at http://www.newsweek.com/last-days-saigon-157477 (Begin excerpts) ...The bitter memories linger on. President Gerald R. Ford remembers sitting alone in the Oval Office, watching the TV film of the helicopters pulling off the embassy roof. "It was one of the saddest days in my life," he recalled in a recent interview with NEWSWEEK. "To see the United States literally kicked out, beaten by the North Vietnamese. It was a tragedy in my own mind." Ford insisted that he was "proud" that some 50,000 South Vietnamese and 6,000 Americans were rescued, at the cost of only four U.S. soldiers. But the uncomfortable fact remains that tens of thousands of South Vietnamese, allies of the United States for many years, were left behind to be shot, imprisoned or sent to "re-education" camps. The fall of Saigon on April 30, 1975, 25 years ago this Sunday, was a low moment in the American Century, a painful reminder of the limits of power. "It was frantic, a mess," remembered Brent Scowcroft, the president's deputy national-security adviser who manned the White House command post through the final night. To many Americans, the fall of Saigon seems about as remote as Appomattox, but to the men who were there, caught in a swirl of moral ambiguity, high drama and dark absurdity, the memories are haunting. The last day was a fitting end to a war that remains irreconcilable--at once a noble cause and a tragic waste that cost 58,000 American lives during more than a decade of fighting and more than 3 million Vietnamese over the course of 35 years of civil war. Historians are still debating every aspect of the war, from the decision to intervene under Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson to the secret escalations of President Richard M. Nixon and Henry Kissinger, his foreign-policy chief. The major players in the endgame--President Ford and his cabinet, the diplomats, soldiers and spies in Saigon--are still vigorously blaming each other for the blunders of the final days. Classified documents released this month by the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library show well-intentioned policymakers in Washington trying to sort out conflicting signals while putting the best face on defeat. But the real story was played out in Saigon, in the nightmarish last days at the U.S. Embassy. It can be told through the still-vivid recollections of three men sucked into the vortex: Snepp, the CIA analyst tortured by guilt over the friends he left behind; Pham Xuan An, a correspondent for Time magazine and spy for the North Vietnamese who was torn by divided loyalties, and Marine Lt. Darrell Browning, a helicopter pilot flying into combat for the first time, more fearful of getting killed by America's allies than by its enemies.... The photograph of that rescue has become an icon of the fall of Saigon. A stream of bodies climbs a rickety stairway to a helicopter that seems too small to carry them all. One of the tiny figures in the picture, possibly the last, is Dr. Tran Kim Tuyen. The former chief of secret police in Saigon and a longtime CIA informant, Tuyen was a dead man if he stayed in Saigon. His rescue is one of the most dramatic tales of the last day, and the personal story of his savior, the American magazine correspondent who doubled as a North Vietnamese spy, captures the larger moral murkiness of the war... About an hour after the last helicopter pulled off the embassy roof, a Chinese-made North Vietnamese tank crashed through the gates of the presidential palace.... (End excerpts) 3. Following are excerpts from the article headlined "Saigon, The Last Day" at http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4624718 (Begin excepts) .....The U.S. evacuation plan was as dumb as the whole U.S. adventure in Vietnam had been. When the decision was made to finally pull the plug on South Vietnam, "White Christmas" was to be played on Armed Forces Radio. That would be the signal for the thousands of Americans still in Saigon to rush to appointed places around the city to wait for the buses that might pick them up and take them to Ton Son Nhut. But as a reporter for Newsweek covering the last spasm of America's war in Vietnam, going to the airport to be jetted out while the city fell was the last thing I wanted to do. Instead, when President Ford ordered the evacuation of Saigon to begin because of the dawn attack on the airport, I chose to record the last minutes of the U.S. presence in Vietnam at the U.S. Embassy in downtown Saigon. Girded by a 15-foot white concrete wall topped with coils of barbed wire, the six story-embassy building was a modern fortress soaring above the low-lying buildings that surrounded it. It was there that U.S. policy had been so long exercised, and it was here Ambassador Graham Martin would finally be making his last stand.... Inside was organized chaos. A motley assortment of Marine security guards, CIA agents and State Department volunteers roamed the grounds and manned the compound walls with an assortment of weapons that ranged from antiquated Tommy guns to hunting knives stuck in their belts. Thousands of desperate Vietnamese, screaming and begging, were trying to climb the walls and get through the coils of barbed wire, only to be pushed back into the street by none-too-gentle rifle butts..... Eventually, some 18 hours after the evacuation was launched, President Ford ordered it to end. The crews of the 80 helicopters, who flew 495 sorties, were exhausted. Night had long since fallen on the thinned-out embassy grounds and the word quietly spread that only the remaining Americans would be evacuated from the roof. The Marines on the walls retreated into the embassy building, the doors were barred, and those of us inside moved up toward the roof floor by floor. Finally, around four in the morning, it was the ambassador's turn. He appeared on the roof with his immediate staff, silent and tired, clutching the embassy's folded flag under his arm. I joined his private secretary and his pet black poodle, Nitnoy, on one helicopter on the roof. The ambassador caught the next one out. As his helicopter lifted off, the last view of the country he had run as an American viceroy was a giant celebratory fireworks display as the ammunition dumps at Bien Hoa to the north erupted… and a long line of truck lights stretching as far as the eye could see as the victorious North Vietnamese army drove south to victory. (End excerpts)
China was the world's largest producer of coal in 2012, producing 46.4 % of the world's coal, while Vietnam ranked 18th, producing a mere 0.5%. Claiming that China would go after a few tiny mines in Vietnam is just like claiming a rich man would go after a few grains of rice in a beggar's bowl. You need a reality check indeed. List of countries by coal production http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_coal_production
oh wow i didnt know that.. well its got to be the oil then off the shores,there after they can use there strong navy to keep the Vietnamese patrol boats away but they are getting subs i see http://thanhniennews.com/politics/russia-hands-over-3rd-submarine-to-vietnam-24858.html
China probably shouldn't mess with the world's finest soldiers -- the North Vietnamese Army (NVA). Once upon a time America took them on and got the caca kicked out of it.
there modern rifle is a bull pup design? Tavor TAR-21 rifle those silkworm [video=youtube;uTAMdKqnwfk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTAMdKqnwfk[/video] land base missiles in the end of this video [video=youtube;sCzvobkUWpA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCzvobkUWpA[/video] will play havick on china's ships
In the Vietnam-American War, the NVA, unlike America, didn't have the world's best equipment, but they made cunning and devastating use of what they had. They also had Ms. Jane Fonda and the Viet Cong (anti-American civilian guerrillas) who were dedicated, fierce warriors.
The world's finest soldiers are the North Vietnamese Army (NVA)!? You are either ignorant or kidding. Behind every Vietnamese soldier looms the shadow of a soldier from a big power. As a Chinese saying goes, "Behind the conceited fox stands a ferocious tiger." Vietnam is expert in playing one power against another. Surprisingly, there are enough idiots in the world for the Vietnamese to manipulate against each other. For instance, many times in history, they had used the Chinese to help them drive out the British, French, Japanese and Americans. They had used the French to eradicate Chinese influence in Indo-China. Without Chinese help, the Vietnamese could never win the Vietnam War. This could be seen in the fact that a Chinese-made North Vietnamese tank crashed through the gates of the South Vietnamese presidential palace about an hour after the last US helicopter pulled off the US embassy roof. A few years later, we found Vietnam turning its guns round towards China. It shows Vietnam’s ingratitude, untrustworthiness and skill in playing one power against another. The Vietnamese nation could be compared to a shoal of piranhas in a South American river. If you don't agree that the piranhas, not the Vietnamese Army, are the world's "finest soldiers", you can find out for yourself by jumping into a South American river together with a Vietnamese soldier and an American soldier. Let’s see what would happen to the three of you in a matter of minutes. The Last Days Of Saigon http://www.newsweek.com/last-days-saigon-157477
Lets cut the crap and look at the reality. A. There has been riots that explicitly target Chinese nationals, so of course they're going to evacuate them, it is actually a curiosity as to why they only started NOW, seeing that most of the biggest riot happened nearly a week ago. So for those who is thinking that this mean they have military action in mind you might be correct, because if it's just about humanitarian then they should have acted far sooner. Meanwhile, Taiwan, who has taken a even harder hit (as most of the factories in Vietnam are actually owned by them.) have not evacuated civilians and the Vietnamese official even apologized and promised repatriation B. The riot have not just been effecting Chinese, but Taiwanese / Korean / Japanese factories have all been burned down and looted, and American plants have also shut down for several days. Because most of these factories, regardless of nationality of origin, hire Chinese nationals as middle managers , because they were operating in China before their own labor gotten more expensive. So a mass exodus of Chinese nationals will effect everyone. C. The origin of this conflict is messy at best. it is hard to say that the Vietnamese really have a better claim than the Chinese, given that 1. during WW2 Japan zoned the islands in question to the administration region of China and 2. during the Vietnam war the North Vietnamese actually gave up their claim of those islands in favor of China for their aids only to retract it after they won the war. Do I think there would be a military conflict? hmmmm, probably yes, on the sea, but not on the ground. The scale of which may be very small though, the most likely serious conflict would be them demanding the tiny garrisons of Vietnam soldiers on some of the reefs in the contested islands to surrender. This is pretty easy for China to pull off really given the drastic difference in naval capacity. Even the US 7th fleet will almost certainly sustain heavy casualty if they were to do a full confrontation with Chinese navies in that area. China already in reality control most of the significant islands, they could easily make it a total reality if they're willing to eat the consequences. I had not expected them to escalate this situation because I thought things were really going well for them , but apparently I may have miscalculated.
sounds like a good nationalistic move by Vietnam, pushing them all out, now if they continue this, lets see if they can stand on there own feet economically.
Even the USA would be pretty devastated if ALL foreign capital pulls out. lets just put it this way. its the modern world, everyone relies pretty heavily on foreign capital / trade , even North Korea.
War? Sounds fun. Maybe America can fund Vietnam, make them a democracy, and claim that we won the Vietnam war. Don't want war you say? Then vote democrat.
Funny fact, Vietnam will probably lend Cam Ranh Bay to the US again in the next couple years. Quite a bit of irony for both sides. 1967-73 : US Naval base 1978-90 : Soviet Naval base 201? on: US Naval base ?
1. Yes, you are right to point out that "during the Vietnam War, the North Vietnamese actually gave up their claim of those islands in favour of China for their aids only to retract it after they won the war". The late Premier Pham Van Dong stated in a note to Chinese leader Zhou Enlai on 14/9/1958: "The Government of the Democratic Republic of VN recognizes and supports the declaration of the Government of the People's Republic of China on its decision concerning China territorial sea made on 4/9/1958." This historical recognition of China's sovereignty over the Paracels and the Spratlies has become an albatross around the neck of all successive Vietnamese regimes. In short, the Vietnamese regime loses its legitimacy to govern the country due to the historic treason and betrayal of the people by the Pham Van Dong regime. This explains the hardline stance of the current Vietnamese regime in retracting the Pham Van Dong regime's recognition of China's sovereignty over the two archipelagos. In particular, the Vietnamese prime minister, Nguyen Tan Dung, distances himself from Pham Van Dong's stance by adopting a hardline policy towards China to enhance his regime's legitimacy and make himself a hero in the eyes of his people. 2. Now 40 years after the Battle of the Paracel Islands, the current regime seems serious and determined to reverse the stance of the Pham Van Dong regime, possibly even resorting to force to capture back the Paracels from China. One interesting thing is that the Vietnamese regime is now taking out its rusty secret weapon from the storeroom -- the global propaganda machine which it had used with devastating effect to defeat the American forces in the Vietnam War by winning the hearts of Americans and other people around the world. In contrast, it's all quiet on the Chinese side and nothing is done by China to counter the Vietnamese propaganda. Just like a tiger could be killed by a swarm of hornets or ants, the US lost the Vietnam War partly due to underestimation of the Vietnamese propaganda machine. China could go the same way as the US in the conflict. Winning a war does not depend only on modern cutting-edge weapons. Primitive soft power such as propaganda is equally vital for winning a war. Like America in the past, China is ignoring it at its own peril. The following shows the Vietnamese propaganda machine in full swing: a) Students both at home and abroad on May 15 continued raising their voice against China. A demonstration was held at Nha Trang University on May 15 afternoon (after the anti-Chinese looting and killing), with the participation of over 7,000 students and teaching staff, in protest of the so-called Chinese incursions. All the university’s teaching staff, along with 20,000 students, sent a letter of determination to high-ranking Chinese officials, affirming that Paracels and Spratly belong to Vietnam. b) A number of meetings were organised across Vietnam on May 15 to show the determination of students and the youth in general to safeguard the country’s sovereignty. c) The National Committee of the Vietnam Union of Literature and Arts Associations on May 14 protested China’s so-called illegal placement of an oil rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone. It called on writers and other artists along with Chinese people to raise their voice to ask the Chinese Government to respect Vietnam’s sovereignty and territory. It also appealed to Governments, international organisations, artistic circles and the peoples of foreign nations to call on Beijing to abide by international law to build and maintain peace, stability and development in the region. At the same time, the committee affirmed its wish to promote the traditional friendship between the people as well as the artistic circles of Vietnam and China. d) The Ex-Youth Volunteers’ Association and the Truong Son – Ho Chi Minh Trail Tradition Association denounced China. The former group comprises around 500,000 members who fought against French, US and other forces. The latter group consists of the soldiers who fought along the Truong Son-Ho Chi Minh Trail during the Vietnam War. e) President of the Vietnamese Writers’ Association (VWA) Huu Thinh on May 15 sent a letter to his Chinese counterpart Tie Ning to determinedly oppose China’s illegal positioning of a drilling rig in Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf It also called on writers from Vietnam, China and all over the world to have sufficient consciousness of the seriousness of the situation and raise their voices to protect justice and international law f) Vietnamese people in Malaysia protested against China. g) A number of Vietnamese students in Thailand’s capital Bangkok peacefully demonstrated in front of the Chinese Embassy. h) The Overseas Vietnamese (OV) community in Thailand issued a statement condemning the so-called China's infringement. They also called on Thai social organisations and Ministry of Foreign Affairs to add their voices in protecting and supporting justice and international law, preventing blatant acts and protecting peace in the East Sea and ASEAN region. i) The Vietnamese Students’ Association in Canberra, Australia, also issued a statement protesting China’s so-called illegal acts of bringing the drilling rig. j) Mass Boup, Belgian journalist and expert on politics and development for Africa, Caribbean, the Asia-Pacific and the European Union criticised China's action. k) Italy’s leading geopolitical magazine Limes ran an article by Giorgio Cuscio about the ongoing tension in the East Sea, voicing concern that Beijing is intensifying its territorial claim and adopting a diplomatic policy of intimidation. l) About 250 overseas Vietnamese in Bulgaria gathered at a meeting on May 13 to protest against China. In a statement released recently, the Association of Vietnamese People in Bulgaria also condemned China’s so-called violation of international law. The same day, Chairman of the Bulgaria-Vietnam Friendship Association Simon Dimchev also met and handed over to Vietnamese Ambassador Le Duc Luu a written statement protesting China’s violation of Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone. m) The executive board of the Vietnamese Association in the UK, under Chairman Son Thanh, at a meeting on May 14 expressed their support to the Vietnamese regime. Ben Chapman, Chairman of the Vietnam-UK Network – which groups organisations and individuals wishing to boost bilateral relations, voiced his worry over China’s actions. 3. Following are excerpts from the article headlined "Paracels Islands Dispute" at http://www.mevietnam.org/lanhtho-lanhhai/feer-dispute.html (Begin excerpts) ....on June 15, 1956, Premier Pham Van Dong reportedly said to China: "From the historical point of view, these islands are Chinese territory." In 9/1958, when China, in its declaration extending the breadth of Chinese territorial waters to 12 nautical miles, specified that the decision applied to all Chinese territories, including the Paracels and the Spratlies, Hanoi again went on record to recognize China'sovereignty over the 2 archipelagoes. PVD stated in a note to Chinese leader Zhou Enlai on 14/9/1958: "The Government of the Democratic Republic of VN recognizes and supports the declaration of the Government of the People's Republic of China on its decision concerning China territorial sea made on 4/9/1958.... In pursuing its national interests, Vietnam has undertaken actions which appear highly provocative from China's point of view. For example, during Vietnam's long struggle for independence it made no public protests over Chinese claims to territory in the South China Sea and indeed supported them. Yet after unification Vietnam reversed its stance. In 1975 Vietnam occupied a number of islands in the Spratly archipelago and subsequently pressed territorial claims to the entire South China Sea. As Foreign Minister Nguyen Manh Cam has admitted: "Our leaders' previous declaration on the Hoang Sa (Paracel) and Truong Sa (Spratly) archipelagoes was made in the following context: At that time, under the 1954 Geneva agreement on Indochina, the territories from the 17th parallel southward including the two archipelagoes were under the control of the South Vietnam administration. Moreover, Vietnam then had to concentrate all its force on the highest goal of resisting the US aggressive war to defend national independence. It had to gain support of friends all over the world. Meanwhile, Sino-Vietnamese relations were very close and the two countries trusted each other. China was according to Vietnam a very great support and valuable assistance. In that context and stemming from the above-said urgent requirement, our leaders' declaration [supporting China's claims to sovereignty over the Paracel and Spratly islands] was necessary because it directly served the fight for the defence of national independence and the freedom of the motherland. More specifically, it aimed at meeting the then immediate need to prevent the US imperialists from using these islands to attack us. It has nothing to do with the historical and legal foundations of Vietnam's sovereignty over the,Truong Sa and Hoang Sa archipelagoes (remarks to a press conference in Hanoi on 2 December 1992 carried by Vietnam News Agency, 3 December 1992)." These statements show that all what Chinese have alledged above are true. What happen today related to these 2 islands are merely consequences of the wicked settlement of these 2 communist brothers in the past. No one in the world community want to step in to settle the dispute between Communist Vietnam and PRC. The reason is very clear : diplomatic note and recognition by Vietnamese Communists can't be erased by a small country like VN who has wanted to play a trick cheating China. Moreover, Vietnamese Communists can't stay away from China while they have to follow Chinese "doi moi" to go forward to socialism. (End excerpts) China’s illegal act in East Sea incurs more protest http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/so...egal-act-in-east-sea-incurs-more-protest.html
