Irish Pastor Rips Into Islam

I presented a nice job of logic. One conflict in Ireland between Protestants and Catholics---and no conflicts occuring anywhere else....is not a decent argument to say Islam and Christianity is equal in violence. Frankly to make that argument is stupid. And---in Islamic countries you would be tried and possibly executed for simply saying all religion is bad. Not the case in a Christian Majority nation---even in Africa. And in Atheist N.Korea you would be fine denouncing religion, but you would be put in prison for simply having a Bible. Atheist countries aren't selling the atheist ideology well and seem to mimic Islams trend towards authoritarianism.

The majority belief system provide the values, priorities held by that nation. In my opinion---an Islamic majority nation isn't capable of freedom---because its its core values contradict the values of freedom.

 

Is it really that suprising that a fundamentalist, conservative Protestant wouldn't want to seek spiritual advice from Muslims? It would be comparable to asking a Turkey if they want eaten for Christmas.

Also, those of you who are discussing the Troubles are neglecting the fact that the war wasn't solely fought on the basis of religion. It had more to do with ethnicity (Descendants of Scottish and England settlers vs the Irish), socio-economic factors (the Protestants held most of the power in Northern Ireland), and the fact that the IRA were insane, genocidal, Marxist terrorists.

 

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Theocracy have Laws as do Democracies or the other five kinds of political leadership.

You MAY personally dislike rules about sexual prudence imposed upon you in a Theocracy, or say mandatory church attendance, or such things.
But they are just rules for that kind of government.

 

No, you don't understand what I am trying to say. Values....what a society deems important tends to mimic the values of the primary belief system. Values are not in the same classification of rules set by a theocracy.

For example:

Christianity allows for free-will . Free will is in the foundation of Christianity. A person can only be a Christian if they make that individual and personal choice to accept Jesus--and if they actually believe that Jesus in God's son, sacrificed for our sins. We pray for people to "see the light" but ultimately we must be tolerant, knowing that its an individual choice we can not control. A society of people adhering to THIS concept will also value freedom...freedom of speech, expression and religion. Free will, and individual choice is important.

For Islam--conversion can be forced. Freedom of religion, expression and speech to fundamental muslims---is anti-Allah. A Muslim society ---the population as a whole--will not value freedom if they are faithful to the foundation of their faith.

 

Christianity does not allow for free will. Saying it does is a lie. What Christianity does do is demand blind unquestioning obedience.

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Christianity does not allow for free will. Saying it does is a lie. What Christianity does do is demand blind unquestioning obedience.

 

Keep on waving those hands. Discount the violence of your own religion so you can keep rationalizing how bad another is. I agree Islam is worse. It's ridiculous to suggest that being less bad than them (or simply ignoring the problems with your religion) somehow makes your faith preferable to no religion whatsoever, though. And the trouble you talk about with North Korea is a symptom of strict authoritarianism, not atheism. Their problem with religious freedom comes from a decree that the leader is god. Really, North Korea's problems stem from the same issues that trouble all religions. There are plenty of minority theist countries that don't have such problems: Finland, Sweden, the UK, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, France... They all do just fine without a Christian "majority belief system." Any religion as a majority belief system is problematic. Yours just happens to be less violent than Islam, but you'll happily criticize Islam as though your house isn't made of glass.

 

As far as I know...you base you hypothesis that Europe is no longer Christian majority on data that might come from one study which contradict others.

Regardless....These countries still have Christian values...instilled in the culture through the Christian founders of that culture. As any tolerant society, a parisitic Atheist thought will spawn. Atheist thought builds nothing and feeds off of what is already strong. I digress.....

Eventually....Christian values will dissipate as Christians dwindle (which I agree is happening in Europe)...leaving Europe to be taken over by Islam. Islam will be the stronger when we have a contest of Atheist vs Islam.

 

Muslims make up less than 2% of most European countries and their birth-rates by the second generation tend to match those of the surrounding population. So please tell me when this imaginery take over will occur?

 

No, it can't.

Non-Muslims are free to practice their religion.

As long as you are not insulting, it's fine.

Perhaps your view of freedom.

 

What is a "Christian value?" I'm not asking for a specific example. I want you to explain what makes something a Christian value as opposed to a human value. It isn't possible for me to respond to your post until you define "Christian value."

 

Let me explain first...values. Values are things a society views important. They are not exclusive to any one society or to any one belief system.

Case in point--valuing human life is a value that both--bible believing Christians have and ancient Egyptions had. Ancient Egyptions would rescue abandoned newborns--disposed by Romans--- from garbage piles. The Romans didn't value them. Egyptions did and raised them as their own.

Values. What you view important.

Each belief system or in the case of Atheists....the belief system of non-belief---have a SET of values. A SET of values derived from what that society believes or based on what they don't believe.

The Christian value of viewing human life as sacred is shared by the Ancient Egyptions who viewed that every child should have life.

Belief systems or systems based on non belief collect a set ofvalues and priorities. THIS is one thing that sets nations apart and make them unique.

Islamic values contradict values pertaining to freedom.

 

Based on what you've said, it is dishonest to say that the minority theist countries have Christian values instilled in them, unless you're willing to acknowledge that Christianity simply has an amalgam of values instilled in it from previous cultures. Either they have made these alleged Christian values their own (e.g. Finnish values, Danish values, etc), by virtue of no longer being Christian, or their societies are actually instilled with Egyptian values, among others.

Regardless, the point stands (because you have dropped it), that Christianity has its own violent extremists, and all religions look terrible when viewed solely through the lens of their extremists.

 

Extremist does not equal violent. It means strongly devout. For instance, the Amish in the most extreme form will not fall into violence.

Now the "Freedom from religion" extreme atheists very well could tend towards totaltarian and violent tendencies--when you look at countries led by governments promoting Atheism---old USSR, China and N. Korea being some examples. Personally....I don't think freedom is a value found when you put a society of atheists together. Its more like....freedom from being offended. Which frankly is where the Islamic stand often is. The set of values for Islam and the set of values presented by Atheists are seemingly to me very closely aligned---which is perhaps the reason for Atheists to automatically defend or distract criticism from Islam by reigning anger and contempt at Christianity.

 

That doesn't counter what I said. The extreme Amish make their religion look terrible, too. Letting children die because you have eschewed the fruits of science isn't much better than blowing people up.

You're showing some extreme ignorance by continuing to call North Korea a government that promotes atheism. They promote the idea that their leader is god, which is about as far from atheism as you can get. As to the USSR and China, neither of those countries did/do what they did/do because of atheism. It's the other way around: totalitarianism may lead to enforced atheism, because non-state religions are a threat to totalitarianism, because religions themselves are totalitarian. How can the state get all of your money if they have to compete with your church? And you have some serious delusions if you think atheists are aligned with Islam. We don't try to defend or distract from Islam when it comes up. Rather, we're using it as a parallel example to hopefully help other religious folks see the problems with religion in general. You're a fine case in point of someone who refuses to address his own faith's shortcomings because Islam is supposedly so much worse. Don't look at the religions violence in Northern Ireland, because it's Christian. Look at the violence elsewhere that is Islamic. It's comical. We see the bad in all religions, so we sometimes make it about all religions when someone wants to pretend that their (*)(*)(*)(*) doesn't stink.

 

. Let's start here. Show me a link where Amish would rather let their children die rather then use science or technology.

 

Some of the more extreme Amish sects reject vaccinations. The largest chunk of the latest measles outbreak is happening in an Amish community where many refuse to vaccinate.

The biggest outbreak, centered in the Amish community in Ohio, is a result of a high rate of unvaccinated residents.

And, going back to last year, an Amish family fled the US rather than let their child with easily treated cancer receive chemotherapy.

So two examples of extreme Amish faith practices that will lead to the death of children.

 

Please explain what the hell the Amish have to do with the OP?

Anything to divert from the fact that Islam is the spawn of the devil.

 

So all you could come up with was vaccination. Yep...that's bad (cough, cough). The cancer incident had nothing to do with their religion....at all. They just happened to be Amish parents that they didn't want to see their child in the constant pain and suffering she had been going through.

I will grant you that their are religions associated with Christianity or that are Christian that can be "misguided". Ones focus should be on Christ and not handling snakes for instance. Letting a child die because your religion prevents blood transfusions is akin to murder in my eyes.

But those things are different then one being extremely devout by following the tenants to the letter---fully and faithfully.

Atheists are extremist too....have you seen the evangelizing threads ranting and raving against Christians? What about the Atheist that asked a high school girl at Columbine if she was a Christian and when she said yes he pointed the gun to her head and killed her. That was a tad extreme.

 

You're right, even though just my opinion muslim radicals are MUCH worse than christian radicals

 

ah, I guess that first came from me within an argument that really did have something to do with the op.

 

Whatever you think is fine with me, it's just when you introduce it as a fact I will have a problem, but I'm glad you agree with me on this.

 

Christianity is still forced on people. The most common reason for laws against gay marriage...."The bible says it's wrong."

 

Sounds like the Irish pastor is an ignoramus... and that type is common is weeds.

People who read only hate sites never learn anything..

 

Is that why the non-theists leave the secular websites and visit the Religious sites... in order to learn something or to pass on the "hate" that they have learned from those other sites?

 

Do you actually any of these people actually want to learn anything?