According to the Bible the goal of Politics is not Individual Freedom

According to the Bible the goal of Politics is not Individual Freedom. It is the maintaining of a tribal religion.

 

1. This belongs in the Religion and Philosophy forum.

2. I'd like to see some scripture to back that up.

 

1. Wrong place to post this.
2. Yeah, I'd like you to find some scripture to back your statements up, because I can guarantee that you cant.
3. What Tram Law said.

 

I'd say the OT basically along the lines of what he said - the New Testament I'd say is pretty apolitical. I'm aware of some on the left trying to use Jesus' acts or comments regarding feeding the poor, or "giving to Caesar" as endorsements of a socialist economic system, but that's really just a stretch - nothing in the NT was really political as far as I can tell, it was social only. And 'socialism/capitalism' as we know it didn't exist in that day and age.

The OT law however is highly authoritarian and pretty much the antonym of individual freedom - this is one of the problems with Christianity and the Bible that I've been pondering as of late. I'm aware that most Christians don't believe the OT law should be followed to the letter in this day and age, but if it was then our govt would look more like Saudi Arabia than anything the Founders' envisioned.

 

Mah ...

in the Bible politics is present as chronicle of how the Jewish people organized itself once it arrived in the Land of Canaan. I'm not aware of some specific and accurate indications saying that politics had a "goal" ...

May be we can find indications that a system is not exactly as nice as people could expect [think to when Israel asked to Judges and High Priests to have a king ...

from 1 Samuel

 

i don't think I agree. When it gets into Jesus going on about the pharisees it does go into politics, but you have to understand a bit about the politics of the day and place where Jesus was alive. BAck then, religion and politics were intertwined with one another.

For example, the story from whence we get "Render unto Ceasar" is both politics and religion. In order to understand what I mean, you should read that whole story.

Then of course there's the execution of Jesus, when Pilate gave the crowd a choice. That was also political as well. jesus threatened Pilates power, so Pilate had to get rid of him. Jesus also threatened the Pharisees power base, so they had to get rid of him too.

That was the way things were done way back when. If somebody opposed you you got rid of them any way you could.

 

What precisely is "the Bible"?

Please quote the relevant text, so we can see for ourselves.

 

This is a subject perhaps better suited for the Religion Forum, as stated by others. However If relocated to 'Religion', it would not meet Rule 11 (Thread Creation Guideline). I will leave it open, and located in 'Opinions'.

However, to the OP, I encourage you to review and follow Rule 11 in the future when creating threads.

Source/Link relevant information along with your respectful personal commentary.

Thank you

 

Jewish Encyclopedia, “Intermarriage”, http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8137-intermarriage

Yahuwah Elohim gave the land promise to Abraham in Gen 15: 18-21

In Genesis 17 Yahuwah gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. Whether or not the children wanted to be circumcised was irrelevant. Because they were the child of the Qodeshim they were obligated and compelled to be a part of that tribal theocratic republic.

In Deut. 13 Yahuwah commanded that if anyone advocated the worship of another deity they were to be put to death. The people were not given an absolute freedom of speech or individual freedom of conscience.

To many other sundry contradictions between the Bible and the modern view of rights see my article here:

http://drakeshelton.com/2013/11/18/...e-national-assembly-of-france-august-26-1789/

- - - Updated - - -

Jewish Encyclopedia, “Intermarriage”, http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...-intermarriage

Yahuwah Elohim gave the land promise to Abraham in Gen 15: 18-21

In Genesis 17 Yahuwah gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. Whether or not the children wanted to be circumcised was irrelevant. Because they were the child of the Qodeshim they were obligated and compelled to be a part of that tribal theocratic republic.

In Deut. 13 Yahuwah commanded that if anyone advocated the worship of another deity they were to be put to death. The people were not given an absolute freedom of speech or individual freedom of conscience.

To many other sundry contradictions between the Bible and the modern view of rights see my article here:

http://drakeshelton.com/2013/11/18/t...ugust-26-1789/

- - - Updated - - -

Jewish Encyclopedia, “Intermarriage”, http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...-intermarriage

Yahuwah Elohim gave the land promise to Abraham in Gen 15: 18-21

In Genesis 17 Yahuwah gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. Whether or not the children wanted to be circumcised was irrelevant. Because they were the child of the Qodeshim they were obligated and compelled to be a part of that tribal theocratic republic.

In Deut. 13 Yahuwah commanded that if anyone advocated the worship of another deity they were to be put to death. The people were not given an absolute freedom of speech or individual freedom of conscience.

To many other sundry contradictions between the Bible and the modern view of rights see my article here:

http://drakeshelton.com/2013/11/18/t...ugust-26-1789/

AS for the New Testament:

Mat 5:17 Do not think I came to do away with the law

Rom. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Rom. 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Rom. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom. 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

As for Saudi Arabia, Muslims do not keep the Torah. They only give lip service to some of it just like Christians.

 

Jewish Encyclopedia, “Intermarriage”, http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...-intermarriage

Yahuwah Elohim gave the land promise to Abraham in Gen 15: 18-21

In Genesis 17 Yahuwah gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. Whether or not the children wanted to be circumcised was irrelevant. Because they were the child of the Qodeshim they were obligated and compelled to be a part of that tribal theocratic republic.

In Deut. 13 Yahuwah commanded that if anyone advocated the worship of another deity they were to be put to death. The people were not given an absolute freedom of speech or individual freedom of conscience.

To many other sundry contradictions between the Bible and the modern view of rights see my article here:

http://drakeshelton.com/2013/11/18/t...ugust-26-1789/

- - - Updated - - -

Jewish Encyclopedia, “Intermarriage”, http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...-intermarriage

Yahuwah Elohim gave the land promise to Abraham in Gen 15: 18-21

In Genesis 17 Yahuwah gave Abraham the covenant of circumcision. Whether or not the children wanted to be circumcised was irrelevant. Because they were the child of the Qodeshim they were obligated and compelled to be a part of that tribal theocratic republic.

In Deut. 13 Yahuwah commanded that if anyone advocated the worship of another deity they were to be put to death. The people were not given an absolute freedom of speech or individual freedom of conscience.

To many other sundry contradictions between the Bible and the modern view of rights see my article here:

http://drakeshelton.com/2013/11/18/t...ugust-26-1789/

 

Woah buddy completely original there. The bible is not a political text.

I have been thinking. There are no psychologists who recommend suicide to their patients and that tells me it is a field full of quacks and greedy scam artists. Sometimes that is the answer. I am serious..sometimes a person, the folks around them and essentially the world would be better off if they just quit on life.

 

That's really weak, it doesn't back up your claim.

Contradictions in the Bible is a separate issue and don't have anything to do with your claim.

In most of your Bible passages listed, the "law" is not political law but religious law, which is distinct from human law.

And finally, the Old Testament and the New Testament do not apply to everyone. The Old Testament applies only to Jews (it reflects the covenant made between God and the Jewish people). The New Testament applies to anyone (including Jews) who accepts it.

Muslims believe the Torah is a Holy book, but are governed by the koran. Muslims believe the New Testament is false, they deny Jesus was crucified and resurrected, and Christians are blasphemers and infidels to be killed (when Islam claims Christians are "people of the Book" and brothers in Islam, they don't mean Christians as we understand it, and they don't mean the New Testament either).

 

drakeshelton.com really?

Domain Name: DRAKESHELTON.COM
Registrant Name: Registration Private
Registrant Organization: Domains By Proxy, LLC
Registrant Street: DomainsByProxy.com

http://www.whois.com/whois/drakeshelton.com

The big scoop from an anonymous blog? Are there any articles on alien spaceship abductions too?

 

You are suggesting it is anarchist?

 

So what.

 

I never mentioned contradictions in the bible.

You are asserting what must first be proved. The scripture makes no theoretical between church and state. The distinction is only in function not theology.

I disagree.This is refuted by the plain reading of Romans 11:17-24

Here we see a denial of both the Catholic replacement system and the dispensational system. The passage does not say that all of the natural branches were broken off. It only says some of the natural branches were broken off. Remember, that the new testament was written, primarily by messianic jews. Moreover, contrary to the dispensational system, it does not say that gentile believers get their own covenant tree, distinct from the jewish tree, but that gentile believers are grafted into the same covenant tree as their spiritual fathers the, jewish people.


This is a full out denial of the Christian idea of a new covenant. Thus we read not of a new covenant but a renewal of the same ancient Abrahamic covenant, made with the ancient jewish peoples and the newly arrived gentile converts:

Gen. 12:3 And so you shall be a blessing;
3 And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”

Speaking to Gentile peoples of promises given to the racial Hebrew Israelites in Lev. 26:12, Rav Shaul states in 2 Cor. 6: 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM;
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

and etc.

1 Cor. 10: 1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was [a]Christ. 5 Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6 Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.

and etc.

1 Pet. 2:9 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

and etc.

Acts 15: 10 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Yeshua, in the same way as they also are.” 12 All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they wererelating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.

And even in the times of Moses Yahuwah made plain that he held the Gentiles were accountable to the same law he gave to the jews:

Deut. 18: 9 “When you enter the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to[h]imitate the detestable things of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.12 For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you.

You are again asserting what needs to be proved. Christians are infidels and they hate the creator and his law. They have rejected monotheism, the sabbath laws and the entire torah. They are heathen.

Messiah and Rav Shaul never do away with Torah observance:

Mat. 5:17 Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets

Rom. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Rom. 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Rom. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom. 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

 

The fact that my statement may not affect you does not mean it does not affect anyone else.

 

Im suggesting there are special schools that cater to your needs.

I am not trained in such a way.

 

Oh look you didn't support your original claim...

 

You wrote
"To many other sundry contradictions between the Bible and the modern view of rights see my article here:"

and gave a link.



Not to dismiss the thread, but your posts are not coherent and difficult to follow. Its better to make a single point and provide something to back it up (maybe your best and clearest evidence), and in most cases, less is better.

 

I have an ongoing debate with one of the local churchgoers on this topic.

He keeps trying to tell me that while democracy and individual freedom are great ideas, Heaven and the hierarchy of angels and the armies of God are not set up that way, that according to the Bible it's clearly more of a feudalistic, militant affair where obedience to the monarch is the definition of faith.

I am, shall we say, skeptical of this kind of Christianity. Mine works very differently.

 

I'd say that the prevailing religion in America has some political effect, especially to the extent that it reflects the overwhelming cultural mythology which certainly has a political effect.

And by 'mythology,' I don't mean that it's not real, I mean that it's a system of organization for one's metaphysical experiences.

The mythology of capitalism has somewhat more effect on politics, but Christianity is probably in the top ten.

 

There are two parts of the Bible: The Old Testament and the New Testament.

The Old Testament is highly authoritarian and highly theocratic. Spain under the Inquisition was probably the closest thing to the Old Testament's view on government.

The New Testament, however, is more moderate. The New Testament's message of all-encompassing love and pacifism directly contradicts what the Old Testament had to say.

 

in the beginning religion was politics... they were the ones that governed the people...

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Americans evolved the Christian religion, they Americanized it... and it is still evolving... and for the better imo

.

 

So what you call "the Bible" is an encyclopedia? Why didn't you just say "the Jewish Encyclopedia"?

Care to try again?

Precisely what does "intermarriage" have to do with your claim "the goal of Politics is not Individual Freedom. It is the maintaining of a tribal religion"?