Rolf Harris leaves behind gilded lifestyle for vulnerable prison unit

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by allegoricalfact, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    Have all the British posters disappeared from PF? ;-)


    If not - what is your take on it?

    I never liked this witch hunt at all and am now, a couple of days later, beginning to feel a bit uneasy about this particular verdict.

    snip
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ailblock:Editable trailblock - news:Position2
     
  2. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    What "witch hunt"? The jury was presented with evidence from many, many women Harris abused over many years, and an appropriate guilty verdict was reached. His 5 years are well-deserved and Harris showed no remorse for his actions throughout the trial. What do you feel "uneasy" about?
     
  3. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    It was all his word against theirs - four women, not many, one of which he admitted having a long affair with but not that it began when she was 13 - the 60s and 70s are a long time ago, from what I have read, the Court transcript is not yet available, I am not happy that the verdict could ever have been a safe one (the more civilized European countries don't take these sorts of historic cases to Court nor imprison people over the age of 70 ) hundreds of old men are now being sent down in this purge, it is a big problem for the prison services.
    -
    Apart from being iffy in the safety department - abuse is usually a 'hand me down' which has been handed down for centuries - down down down through History and Wars and Oppression and so on - I do not see how we shall ever heal any of our wounds of history by scapegoating old men - much of the aggression toward some unconvicted men lately was against what sounded like pure Benny Hill -


    The scapegoats in Ancient Greece were no-bodies who were wined and dined and pampered on the state for at least a year - then in hard times or for special feasts, they were sent out and beaten by the populous and driven to the gates of the city where they were either sent out to fend for themselves or stoned to death - in other places thrown over cliffs - that is what this feels like to me -

    I have no probs with the truth coming out - abuse is not a thing I have ever pretended did not happen either in my life nor in freinds' of mines' lives - it should be talked about but what is happening now is in my opinion not healthy for any of us cetainly not for society as a whole. We are just metering out the same old abuse and fear. -
     
  4. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    What is healthy is that our society is finally stopping the protecting and covering up of the 'activities' of so-called celebrities who got away with their crimes for decades. The same goes for the Catholic church who protected their own for decades.
    And of course it was the women's word against Harris's. How else do you think the jury would have reached their conclusion if not for the evidence they heard? Harris had every opportunity to refute it, just as every other person did in recent abuse trials.
     
  5. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    Some of the evidence given against him was proved to be wrong as in times and places - Historic cases such as this one are unsafe - and in his case a lot a lot of money is also involved - compensation cases are coming up.

    Scapegoating would need celebs but there are hundreds now -

    I think you have no want to heal - what is society now by sending him to the nounces wing of that hell hole called Wandsworth, if not itself an abuser - abuse heaped upon abuse and on and on we go -

    I was abused too in the 50s and 60s and 70s so I am not talking from the pov of someone who simply feels pity for silly reasons - I want us to live in a better world where our children can play outside in safety, the treatment of these people will make it and us worse not better -.
     
  6. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    How is removing abusers from access their victims a bad thing? You should be celebrating the fact that one more pervert isn't going to be troubling us any longer. Would you consider Savile's post-mortem convictions a witch hunt, or a revelation and a warning to other 'celebrity' abusers that society will hunt them down and punish them however 'historic' their crimes might be?
    I'm also frankly more concerned about healing those whose lives were ruined by these manipulative and coercive bastards. Wandsworth is a paradise compared with the hell of the abuses their victims suffered.
    You wanted my take on it. There you have it.
     
  7. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    As an Australia, I have struggled a bit over this. Of all the people in the world Harris would (to me at least) the least likely person to be involved in these activities. However he has been tried before his peers and found guilty. And that is that.
     
  8. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    We thought the same of Jimmy Savile and his charitable works. Funny how things work out ain't it?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile#Fundraising.2C_sponsorship_and_voluntary_work
     
  9. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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  10. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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  11. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    One of Harris' victims got the date wrong. Another he refuted by flatly claiming he had never even visited the town she lived in, until videotape turned up showing him in a TV programme filmed there at the time she claimed. Six other witnesses not involved in the criminal case testified to being assaulted.
    Harris was as popular as "Captain Kangaroo" in the USA, apparently. He even made a child safety video about saying no to touching! That takes on a spooky feel knowing what we know now.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28112605
     
  12. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    But most people who are a danger to children, or anyone else, are let out after serving their time - that is utter madness is it not? - but that is not what I am talking about. nor am I talking about Savile. He is dead.

    You have misunderstood what I'm saying.
     
  13. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    No the video does not show him there at that time but three years later -

    I am not nor ever was a fan of Rolf Harris nor am I asking these questions in defense of him, I am not happy about these sorts of historic cases because time alone make sound judgments very questionable.

    Much of the reactions are the mobs need for the blood of Savile and to quiet their/our guilt for not doing anything about it at the time and ect we also live in a Puritanical era and the Inquisition touches everyone to some extent -

    I am trying to look at this on the deeper level of how we can better society with the open acknowledgement of the faults of our societies and why they were not dealt with then and how we can make the streets safe for our children - because now all I see is disturbing trends, such as men not daring to touch or cuddle even their own children in public - children locked in the prisons of their homes unless parents ferry them here there and every where and so on - I never see kids freely wandering around as I could when I was a kid - when all this abuse did happen - yes to me too - we did talk about it though, just didn't bother to tell adults for there was no point. Ditto as we grew into adults our selves - well my story don't matter and we all know there was no one to tell safely and if you did somehow you were to fault - all that is passing but - we are not solving the problem by locking up old men to dye rotting in jail - that only heaps up more abuse on our/our childrens' shoulders.
    fear!
     
  14. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    As far as the populous is concerned he was and is still being tried by Press - we don't have the Court transcripts and the press only reported what will sell papers.

    I am not defending Rolf Harris, but asking questions such as, how safe is any verdict able to be in a case about things which happened 45 years ago - and involves no evidence other than one persons word against an others or others.

    And how is this case in particular affecting the children of now and past generations - personally I wasn't fond of him, he was too jolly, I always felt there was another man behind the mask but that is often so in show business especially of clowns - but all those who watched and loved Animal Hospital - has anyone shown any care of how they will be affected by this modern scapgoating feast?

    It seems there is an £11 million fortune about to be fought over as far as compensation claims are concerned now.
     
  15. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    I don't know nor have ever known any one who did not think Savile was creepy and suspected children were unsafe in his presences, my god he was touching them up on camera - those who didn't see it did not have their eyes open - most of his alleged victims did not have parents to protect them if you remember.

    He was also protected from on high -

    And there were accusations against him, in the papers too ( no name but we knew who it was ) in the Top of the Pops days -
    And his alleged abuses are very different to those of Rolf Harris - but yes Rolf Harris is paying for the sins of Savile - a scapegoat - guilty or innocent an old man now who was standing trial for some alleged gropes of 45 years ago, none of recent times -

    ''But in civilised Greece the custom of the scapegoat took darker forms than the innocent rite over which the amiable and pious Plutarch presided. Whenever Marseilles, one of the busiest and most brilliant of Greek colonies, was ravaged by a plague, a man of the poorer classes used to offer himself as a scapegoat. For a whole year he was maintained at the public expense, being fed on choice and pure food. At the expiry of the year he was dressed in sacred garments, decked with holy branches, and led through the whole city, while prayers were uttered that all the evils of the people might fall on his head. He was then cast out of the city or stoned to death by the people outside of the walls. The Athenians regularly maintained a number of degraded and useless beings at the public expense; and when any calamity, such as plague, drought, or famine, befell the city, they sacrificed two of these outcast scapegoats. One of the victims was sacrificed for the men and the other for the women. The former wore round his neck a string of black, the latter a string of white figs. Sometimes, it seems, the victim slain on behalf of the women was a woman. They were led about the city and then sacrificed, apparently by being stoned to death outside the city. But such sacrifices were not confined to extraordinary occasions of public calamity; it appears that every year, at the festival of the Thargelia in May, two victims, one for the men and one for the women, were led out of Athens and stoned to death. The city of Abdera in Thrace was publicly purified once a year, and one of the burghers, set apart for the purpose, was stoned to death as a scapegoat or vicarious sacrifice for the life of all the others; six days before his execution he was excommunicated, “in order that he alone might bear the sins of all the people.”

    http://www.bartleby.com/196/144.html
     
  16. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    The documents have disappeared - and now there will be an inquiry as to where they went -

    Oh and Cameron is determined to get to the bottom of it - mmmmm unfortunate phrasing eh?
     
  17. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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  18. munter

    munter New Member

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    How did they actually ' prove ' the whole Rolf harris thing anyway, or did he admit it?

    because 30yrs ago seems a long time to suddendly decide you;ve been molested, nothing to do with his money is it? how about if rolf had been a bus driver, the case would never make the light of day - typical liberal crocodile tears here
     
  19. smevins

    smevins New Member

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    I sort of agree with your sentiments. Most likely it boils down to what one's view of imprisonment is. I am often conflicted when I read of people in their 80's being sent to prison for something that they did when they were very young and reckless or some of these old Germans who were WWII Nazis but then went on to live very ordinary lives. I guess I am not decided on whether vengeance is worth the added emotional harm it will cause these people's children, grandkids, etc. Nobody is going to be rehabilitated in their 80's.
     
  20. walkingcontradiction

    walkingcontradiction New Member

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